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 Post subject: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:03 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2848
Location: T2C
Matt briefly gave me the rundown before he left on holidays. Essentially it went something like this...

"You need a pair of rear springs out of a Toyota Previa. They're easy...you'll figure it out. Then you take out the Nivomats and springs out of the 960 and take the bottom mount out of the Nivomats and insert them in the Bilstein HDs after you press out the tube that's currently in the Bilsteins. Then you stick in the Bilsteins and Previa springs and you're good to go."

Well...it wasn't quite that easy. Actually, removing the springs from the one and only Previa at PnP was easy. Undo the top shock bolt and the whole rear end falls on the ground. I had my impact gun with me so this took all of about 10 minutes.

Getting the springs and Nivos out of the 960 was somewhat more complicated as was getting the lower mount from the Nivos into the Bilsteins but the 2 hours it took me to do the first side was shortened to about 20 minutes for the other side. End result is an IRS 960 that rides like it should and doesn't sag in the back. A little stiffer spring and shock would take away the Cadillac smoothness but I've got my 740 for that nonsense. Drove the car to Red Deer yesterday and it ran like a champ the whole way. Fewer rattles than our wagon and completely comfortable to drive...

Anyone interested in a white 960 wagon? Gonna be selling it in a little bit. Need to recover the cost of the 740, the new 960 and the new engine going in the 740...

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:02 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3335
Location: Calgary, Ab
You forgot that I said you'd want the spring compresser for the Volvo springs, though I managed mine with brute force and a pry bar...

Glad it worked out!


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:02 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2848
Location: T2C
Nah...no spring compressor required. Dropped the front of the control arm. If the car is high enough off the ground it'll swing down far enough to pry the spring out (from the top) without too much trouble...

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:04 pm 
Canadian Tire Bolt ons

Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:59 pm
Posts: 42
Location: waterloo, ontario
I'm considering the same change on the 28 year old Nivomat on
my 1990 - 780.

I took it for a first long run today on local highways (100km/h) and
a provincial 400 (130km/h). The aged factory ride was very soft
and handling (lane changes / off ramps) were ambiguous. All 4
corners have to be renewed.

I had all Bilstein HD / IPD big front/rears bars way back on my 91-740 and they
were hard on the teeth over rougher roads. The car did not lean at all, but
the ride comfort level were harsh like a go-cart.

Is there an alternative "civilized" for the shock? I like the OE Sachs setup
on my wife's 00 - 3 series - recently renewed all of them. I'd go for Koni, but
not on the V6.

Which Bilstein HD or TC rear ? Ones for non Nivomat Volvo 7xx/9xx ?
Stock Toyota Previa rear springs, no cutting.


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:14 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3335
Location: Calgary, Ab
The rear HD for the 740 is fine. The fronts are a disaster. The TC is pretty good, and matches up fairly well with the HD rear. That's how I had my 780 set up - 1 cut coil stock front spring, TC shock, progressive Previa rear spring, converted HD.


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:59 pm
Posts: 42
Location: waterloo, ontario
How high will the rears be with Previa / Bilstein HD? The factory look saggy.

Where is the cheapest place for the Bilstein HD and which one should I order.
The rear HD for non IRS 700/900 ?

The V6 looks mousy with the 195/65/15


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:59 pm
Posts: 42
Location: waterloo, ontario
Seeing that I can't find any wreckers with Previa. Will these Moog coils CC251 do for the DIY Nivomat
replacements?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moog-Coil-Sprin ... AH&vxp=mtr


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:24 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3335
Location: Calgary, Ab
More than likely. I'm not sure the quality of Moog springs compared to Toyota so I don't know where they'd sit (height wise) day 1 vs. 2 years from now. They might sag out, while junkyard springs have sagged all they're going to. For that price they're worth giving a try.

The Nivomat springs were a bit of a bear to get out, and are QUITE dangerous. They're not very strong springs but they're long and are under a lot of compression, so be very careful when you remove them. I forget if I removed the control arm, if I wormed my strut-spring compressors in there, or if I went off the map and did something silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:49 am 
Canadian Tire Bolt ons

Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:59 pm
Posts: 42
Location: waterloo, ontario
I'm pretty sure the rear Nivomats are gone on the 90/V6. The bump stops
on the rear hub knuckles have taken a beating from bottoming out against
the wheel well. I'm going to try replacing them with generic sized polyurethane
ones from UK.

Onward to the Nivomat swap. I will be getting the new Moog springs for Previa or
should I get the IPD ones (part is ok, but shipping is a killer)?

Which Bilstein HD (part no) rear shock should I be ordering?


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:52 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3335
Location: Calgary, Ab
These are the shocks for an '88 740: https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ ... /model/740

Note that they do not fit the 780 without modification as illustrated by Dale's original post.

If you've got the time and the inclination, you can convert them to fit the 780 but it would be a lot easier to buy the complete spring/shock conversion kit from IPD as it'll give you the right ride, height, and will bolt in. Bodging it together with 740 shocks and Previa springs would cost about half, so it's down to what your time is worth and if you'll enjoy doing the job.

Dale did the job because he had a set of used 740 Bilsteins kicking around, and there were a bunch of Previa in the JY at the time. I had a set of already converted Bilsteins included with my car when I got it, all I needed were the springs which were easy to come by. The kit just didn't exist when we had our cars, and if I were doing the job now I'd be tempted to just scratch out the dough and buy it.


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:59 pm
Posts: 42
Location: waterloo, ontario
I ordered the IPD Bil/HD kit for the 90/V6. The sag is worst than I
believed. On side is 1 inch lower and the low side's knuckle stop is trashed.
The higher side still sits lower than the 1989 that is undergoing
restoration.

I will save the ends of the old Nivomat and used them for
the 1989 with Previa springs when it becomes road worthy.

Will the $70 spring compressor from Princess Auto do? IPD instructions
say to use an internal spring compressor. I think there is enough room
for the external spring compressor to do the job.


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:43 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3335
Location: Calgary, Ab
I only have an external compressor, either I made it work or I cut the springs out with a death wheel. I think I made it work and wrestled them out because I seem to recall taking pictures of them in their fully-extended glory.


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:59 pm 
Canadian Tire Bolt ons

Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:59 pm
Posts: 42
Location: waterloo, ontario
I have the wheel well open on the 1989 right now. I think there
is enough room to use external compressors. From what I can
see, with the lower trailing arm bottomed (but still attached to
the rear knuckle hub, I only need to compress the spring 3-4 inches
to get it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Nivomat Fix in the $250 960
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:25 pm 
Canadian Tire Bolt ons

Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:59 pm
Posts: 42
Location: waterloo, ontario
Finally stuck the IPD Nivomat replacement kit in the 90 - 780.

My opinion, the ride is perfect. The rear end sit just right. Soaks
up the poorly paved Ontario roads. The car handles like my
BMW E46 coupe. With what appears to be newer factory fronts, I
find no under steer, no over steer.

This handling is WAY better (and civilized) than I remember in
my 91 - 740 sedan (non-IRS) with full IPD bars and HD-Billy.

There isn't a need for search for a rear sway bar off a 940-IRS for the style
of drivng I am doing. It doesn't need it. I am sailing around traffic circles
at a good speed with no body roll.

I wonder if the TC-Billy fronts are even needed.


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