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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:37 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Maybe we have the 242 fixed. Greg and I spent a long evening in the fancy heated garage changing the control pressure regulator. Today in -13 C it started first pull and in the same conditions last night it wouldn't run properly (same as before). Getting the CPR out and in was a real adventure - even Greg cursed it a little :lol: .

Weird part was that I don't think the CPR that was in the car was the right part. The wax switch in the head was connected to the vacuum advance and tee'd into the pulse air system. Not sure what it was suppose to do hooked up that way other than prevent a vac leak.

The old part didn't have the vacuum lines connecting it to the wax switch (valve) or the vent to atmosphere from the top. The new part had all these ports, fun part was getting it all plumbed. The orientation of the CPR had to be reversed to get the vent in the right place (same as on Greg's car). The fuel lines just stretched to make it into place.

We then found a vacuum check valve (no delay valve could be found in Greg's parts stash) - then plumbed it as per the diagram Matt had created for Greg some time ago.

When I started it after work, it started right away and then increased rpm for a half second then settled down to the right idle speed. I'm going to take it for a spin and see how it runs. The true test will be when it is really cold.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:11 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:29 am
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Hooray!
Yeah, changing that thing sucked. But I'm stoked its working better.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:44 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
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Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
The part I LOVE about this entire thread :shock:
122_Canuck wrote:
even Greg cursed it a little :lol:


Try replacing the heater core on a Mercedes Benz, you will converse in a totally new language

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:04 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
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Location: Lethbridge, AB
Volvord wrote:
Try replacing the heater core on a Mercedes Benz, you will converse in a totally new language


Well the heater fan is making some noise...so that may be next. I took it for a spin in the blizzard tonigt and I couldn't feel the 2K RPM surge any more either...so that may be fixed as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:57 pm 
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How about doing a blower motor on an xc90 the way vida says instead of the shortcut...thats lunacy

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 Post subject: Re: K-Jet No Start
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:30 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Location: Lethbridge, AB
Resurection from deep in the archive...I'm having some more issues with K-Jet. Some of this is just free-form core-dump stuff, but chip in if you have some ideas for me.

This is what is happening. The car starts (it's Ffffeeezzing out - this morning it was -25°C and has been for a week) and idles fine. When driving the car will occasionally idle at 2000 RPM and not come down unless I kick it into gear. This is annoying, but no big deal.

Then as things warm up, the idle speed drops right off (500 RPM) and things die to the point that I can't drive without my foot on the throttle. Not great this time of year.

Things that have changed since my last K-Jet issue:
New CPR, new Air Aux valve, new external pump and accumulator.

Thinking that the CPR is not getting the right vac signal as we dicked around with this when we put the engine back in the car (haven't seen anything this cold this year...yes - this morning was the coldest temp of 2010).

The high idle could be related to the thermal time switch staying on and delivering excess fuel via the cold start injector.

My only other thought is that Jim send me a PM about a pending order at FCP and I said I didn't need anything right now - the car may have heard that!

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 Post subject: Re: K-Jet No Start
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:08 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
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Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
The exact same thing used to happen with our old 245/B23E. Scary when driving from Vancouver to Calgary for xmas and the car stalls on highway 1 in the middle of a blizzard, in the dark, -30 outside. We were pointed uphill, and luckily my little brother actually figured out we could jump start the car in reverse, and not risk trying to turn around in the middle of the highway.

ALLLL that being said, I never figured it out, even 10, no 15 years later when the car belonged to me, then my dad. My theory was ice build up somewhere in the throttle area, or on the air flow plate, with the pcv system dumping nice dirty, potential moist crankcase air right in there.

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 Post subject: Re: K-Jet No Start
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:12 pm 
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122_Canuck wrote:
My only other thought is that Jim sent me a PM about a pending order at FCP and I said I didn't need anything right now - the car may have heard that!


That and it's probably still miffed about the block heater shot I took when I saw the motor all shiny on the stand... you are plugging it in right?? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: K-Jet No Start
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:38 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
122_Canuck wrote:
The car starts ... and idles fine. When driving the car will occasionally idle at 2000 RPM and not come down unless I kick it into gear.


Could be condensation freezing up in your throttle body or moist linkage/throttle cables. You're not using the manifold heat in the airbox, since you've got a header, so your intake air temperature is mighty cold, which DOES make a difference in these cars. The cold/wet air also plays havoc with the idle air bypass valve, and when you open the throttle the equalized pressure on both sides of the valve allow it to move again.

Quote:
Then as things warm up, the idle speed drops right off (500 RPM) and things die to the point that I can't drive without my foot on the throttle. Not great this time of year.


Not surprising. The mix is probably way out due to it not having any feedback loop or having really been tuned to any particular AFR in this weather. I think this is all pretty common sh!t to anyone who's driven a "normal" K-jet car without regulated idle or lambda.

Quote:
Thinking that the CPR is not getting the right vac signal as we dicked around with this when we put the engine back in the car


I think we're going to have troubles with this vac signal thing... As far as I'm concerned, the CPR needs no vacuum. For a Canadian B23E, the PTVV only opens when hot in order to activate the EGR, that goes along with the pulsair that these engines normally have. The PTVV in the Turbo model is only open when cold in order to feed the CPR (pre-'84 only) a TEMPORARY vacuum signal when vacuum drops, in order to burp an extra bit of fuel into the engine for a second or two. In the 13 years I've owned and have been working on 240s and to the best of my recollection, I've never seen a ported CPR on a B23E.

Quote:
The high idle could be related to the thermal time switch staying on and delivering excess fuel via the cold start injector.


The TTS can only close if the coolant is cold and if the coil within the TTS is cold. Passing current heats up the coil after at most 15 seconds and opens the switch. But whether the switch is open or stuck closed, it doesn't matter because the TTS passes power to the cold start injector when the starter is spinning the engine. Power for the cold start injector is taken right off the starter solenoid.


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 Post subject: Re: K-Jet No Start
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:46 pm
Posts: 360
Location: B-Ham WA/Portland, OR USA
I haven't seen vac lines on most or all B23Es on the WUR (my memory is fuzzy).

I'm going to go with no heat source and icing of the AAV or throttle body. When it gets cold enough, the airbox t-stat is nice to have.

Sounds about right for a k-basic and no CIS though. Might want to consider adding the CIS. Not all that complicated except drilling and tapping the block for the coolant temp sensor for it if you want to use it (not the end of the world if that isn't used). Much nicer to have that style than that stupid AAV thing.

It is a hand full of wires, proper loom (I think some N/A cars with it have their own harness for it from memory), throttle position switch, computer/bracket, passenger kick panel if you want to mount it there, brackets/hoses for idle stabilizer motor and a few other bits. CIS system chapter in the bentley or volvo green and a bit of junkyard diving for a replacement harness for it and one could have it working nicely...

Either re-adjust the mix a bit seasonally or use a lambda fuel dist I guess.

All of our GLT cars came with the CIS system (with B21F). Canadians don't, for whatever reason.


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 Post subject: Re: K-Jet No Start
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:01 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
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Location: Lethbridge, AB
Thanks Guys...at least this car works. Yesterday the Beetle was dead. They reflashed the computer last year to "fix" a few things and it hasn't started worth a sh!t since. Bloody Germans. Things worked fine yesterday at -27°C including several starts from DEAD cold. I'll have a look at a few things suggested when the temps are more reasonable.

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