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 Post subject: Good deal on synthetic oil
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:55 pm 
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I was at Crappy Tire today and picked up a load of synthetic oil for a real good price. They have their Motomaster 100% synthetic on right now for about 20 cents more per quart than their semi-synthetic oil so about $4.49 or $4.69 per 946 ml bottle. It comes in 5x30 and 10w30 flavours.

By comparison the 4.4 litre jug of the same stuff is $25.99. When you work out the sale price on the 946 ml bottle, it comes out to about $21.00 for 4.4. litres. All of their other name brand synthetic oils are waaaaay more than that. I don't know who makes this stuff for Crappy Tire but there are only so many manufacturers of synthetic motor oil out there so it would have to be one of them and my guess is it would be the exact same oil as they put in their name brand containers but at a much lower price.

At any rate the sale on the synthetic oil only goes until March 10 so it might be worth a trip down there to stock up on some synthetic oil if that's what you like running in your cars.

Roj

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:54 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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umm yeah Roj...check the seal of quality (if there is one)

i did oil testing last year at school and the reason it's so cheap is because those "crappy tire brands oils" do not meet the API specs

good cheap oil if you need to lube up something other than an engine...chainsaw chains or having two girls wrestle in motor oil...but i would never [/i]suggest buying it to anyone for a cars motor oil

you can argue that its the same all you want...but chemistry doesn't lie, and i got an A both semesters...

just a warning

ciao

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:08 pm 
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Tha VZA wrote:
i did oil testing last year at school and the reason it's so cheap is because those "crappy tire brands oils" do not meet the API specs

...

you can argue that its the same all you want...but chemistry doesn't lie, and i got an A both semesters...



Ooh :) Which kinds did you test? Which ones were awesome, which ones were teh sux?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:27 pm 
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just a suggestion, check out http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ I don't know if any of you have heard of it before. It's a forum all about oil, and I think the guy makes a living doing nothing but test oil. Do a search, they have a couple of forums where they tested all the oil's and filters. Actually they really liked some synthetic esso oil from walmart (good price too), hated mobil 1. As well they hated fram filters (look for ones made my purolator, hold a lot more crud!).

that's my 2ยข


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:15 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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fram blows chunks...anything fram...garbage

Esso we did test it was one of the better ones...i'll see if i can dig out some of my old labs for everyone and share results (we also took crude and boiled it to make diesel fuel, that was a fun day!)

Mobil 1 we found to be good...but not there "cold weather" oils, just the summer performance oils

castrol, penzoil, quaker state...they all suck :wink:

filters we never did test...but i know people who have run fram filters in cars/trucks and hated the outcome

ciao

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:27 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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I did the same "oil chemistry"course at SAIT. It was fun but one thing to remember is that the oil tested was the brand/type available then, Formula change and so will the results.

When I took the course (oil had just been invented) Castrol was shite because it left behind solid tungsten, an additive used back then, Valvoline also had abrasive additives, where as QState & Penzoil were better. Mobil 1 was "top of class"

I know that the oil formual have changed considerably since then and would not label any btand as good/bad.

..and ya making the diesel was a blast

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:23 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Ha ha, wonder if you have the same instructor i did...11 :shock: years ago. His favorite story was telling about someone spilling hot oil or something on themselves "Right to the bone, right now!" was the expression.

mobile one and shell were top IIRC. quaker state left a fair volume of light powder which apparently could clog filters and such.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:13 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Volvord wrote:
(oil had just been invented)


LOL!!! Good one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:58 pm 
I can take anything apart.
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Tha VZA wrote:
umm yeah Roj...check the seal of quality (if there is one)

i did oil testing last year at school and the reason it's so cheap is because those "crappy tire brands oils" do not meet the API specs

good cheap oil if you need to lube up something other than an engine...chainsaw chains or having two girls wrestle in motor oil...but i would never [/i]suggest buying it to anyone for a cars motor oil

you can argue that its the same all you want...but chemistry doesn't lie, and i got an A both semesters...

just a warning

ciao



Well, it exceeds API SM, SJ, SH SG/CF & ILSAC GF-3, GF-4 service classifications and JASO Wear Test requirements. Also meets requirements of Corvette GM4718N. In other words it meets all the same specs as the best name brands.

There are only a few refinerys that are set up to produce this type of motor oil and if you know anything about how refinerys are set up, they don't make special lower quality batches of oil for one customer and better quality batches for others or there own name brand. The feedstock and additives go in one end and the finished product comes out the other end. The production streams run continuously and it's simply uneconomical to set up separate production streams for different brands of synthetic oil or to change the processes in order to make different quality batches. At the end of the line the stuff gets put in containers, packaged and shipped. It doesn't matter what container it goes into or who's label is on it, it's all the same stuff. Most likely this Crappy Tire stuff is made by Esso but it could be made by Quaker State, Castrol or Mobil.

All of today's synthetic and semi-synthetic motor oils are of far higher quality and meet much higher standards than what was prescribed by Volvo for our 240s and 740s when those cars were produced. These cars were designed to run and last a long time on motor oils which did not come near the quality of what's available now so to turn up your nose and say the reason the CT oil is so cheap is that it doesn't meet the API standards when in fact it does meet and exceed all the same standards as any other oil you may believe is far superior is just plain ridiculous. You should perhaps try and learn all the facts about something before you start making such assertions and dumping on other people's ideas.

The bottom line here is that this is a very good oil at a very good price and represents an excellent value for the money.

Roj

P.S. I'm a P.Eng.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:06 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Roj wrote:
You should perhaps try and learn all the facts about something before you start making such assertions and dumping on other people's ideas.

The bottom line here is that this is a very good oil at a very good price and represents an excellent value for the money.

Roj

P.S. I'm a P.Eng.


:lol:

thanks Roj... :roll:

all you had to say was "this oil meets the API specs" there has been motor oil for sale at C-Tire before priced really cheaped, when i looked for the API spec it wasn't there, i asked the manager and he said "yeah but the price is right :wink: "

PS. I am not a P. Eng...are you a Petroleum P.eng??? If so i didn't know and if i did i would have expected you to check for these spec seals automatically and would not have said a word..if you arn't a Petroleum P. Eng, civil, structural, mechanical or otherwise, then it is irrelevant

PPS. How many oils have you tested in a lab setting?

ciao

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:29 pm 
I can take anything apart.
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Ok, maybe I got a bit testy there. Sorry. :oops: But just the same you could've asked what API specs the stuff meets before basically implying the stuff is just crap.

I'm a Geological/Geophysical Engineer, BTW, so have taken a lot of civil and some mechanical engineering courses plus all the basic engineering courses that every gear takes. Can't say I haven't tested any motor oils in the lab but I can say that I have some common sense and have talked to some people who work in refinerys and have learned from them that the oils the refinerys make for their own label and third party labels are the same, just packaged in different containers.

When it comes to synthetic oils there are very few refinerys that can produce them so you can pretty much be assured that the synthetic oil CT sells under their label is the same as one of the oils you get under one of the name brand labels. On the bottles it says it's Made in Canada so that might eliminate some of the possible manufacturers. I've never really looked to see but my guess is that some of the brand name synthetic oils sold up here are products of the USA but I may be wrong about that. Anyone know ? My guess, however, is that this stuff is made by Esso.

At any rate, $21 per 4.4 litres is a darn good price for a decent quality 100% synthetic oil. At that price it's not a whole lot more than the regular or semi-synthetic oils so it's a very good option for those who are on a bit of a budget and might normally buy regular or semi-synthetic oils because of price. At that price you can afford to change the oil as often as regular or semi-synthetic oils. People can go out and spend $10 - $15 more for one of the name brand oils but I'd argue that you're not getting enough difference in quality to justify the cost difference given that the CT oil meets/exceeds all of the same API and other standards.

It's also important to recognize that with the exception of those who have transplanted V-8s into their bricks, we're talking about old Volvo engines here and not F-1 or Nascar engines. The B2X series engines were designed to last forever using oils made to standards that were superceded and became obsolete many years ago. My car is an '81 and this synthetic oil from CT is probably 5 times better than the very best motor oil that was available on the market when that engine was designed and produced. If that B23E in my car has lasted 25 years and 240,000+ kms on the oils that were available in the 80s and 90s, it's not going to make a difference worth caring about whether or not I run a synthetic oil from CTire, Castrol, Esso, Mobil or Shell, etc in it. It's like arguing which type of premium unleaded fuel works best in your lawn mower. It's all good and far far better than what the machine was originally designed and engineered to work with.

So that's my rationale for using that oil and for recommending that people go out and buy themselves some of it while it's on sale. If people want to spend a bunch more to get a name brand synthetic oil then so be it. I would only argue that they wouldn't be getting very good value for the extra money spent on the name brand synthetic oil vs the CTire synthetic but that's just my opinion and I don't have any actual test data to prove I'm right. By the same token, no one has any test data to prove that I'm wrong either.

Roj

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:46 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Roj wrote:
...I don't have any actual test data to prove I'm right. By the same token, no one has any test data to prove that I'm wrong either.

Roj


hmm...i should do some testing soon i think :wink: :wink:

lesson learned for everyone to remember READ THE SPECS and go from there...

if anyone doesn't understand the specs here's some info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_oil

and...

Quote:
All about engine oils
by Jim Kerr

Changing the engine oil in a car today seems increasingly complicated. Pull into a quick-lube and they ask if you want a regular, premium, synthetic blend, or full synthetic oil. As soon as you make a choice, they bombard you with questions about the grade of oil you want: 10W-30, 5W-30, 10W-40, and so on! Finally, you get to select the brand. Answer all the questions and get a cup of coffee as a prize.

Even more complicated, try selecting the right engine oil off the shelf at the local store. Rows and rows of oil containers have basically the same shape, but check out the fine print on the back of one and you will find a mind-boggling sea of information. There are API (American Petroleum Institute) classifications such as SH, SJ, CF-4, or CH-4. It may say it is "energy conserving" or that it meets military specs. Many say they are suitable for turbochargers, and almost all meet car manufacturers specifications. So what is best for your vehicle?


Checking your vehicle owner's manual recommendations is a good starting point. Most vehicles can use a regular oil. If these oils didn't meet manufacturer's specs, they wouldn't be on the market. Premium oils are often a higher quality and slightly higher priced because they start with better quality oil when refined, or have more special additives to help protect your engine. Energy conserving oils have more friction reducing additives. Synthetic oils are usually only specified for high performance cars, but the ability to flow easily at low temperatures and still protect engine parts at very high temperatures make them beneficial for any vehicle. Their only disadvantage is their substantially higher price. A few engines, such as Ford's Powerstroke Diesel, require special oils. This engine needs an oil with lots of anti-foam additive to prevent air bubbles forming in the oil-charged diesel injectors.

Viscosity refers to the oil's ability to flow. An oil with SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) grade 5W-20 flows easier than a 10W-30 oil. The lower the number, the easier it flows and the easier a cold engine cranks over, but low viscosity oils don't protect engine parts as well. They become too thin at higher temperatures. Most manufacturers specify 10W-30 oil or 5W-30 oil for year around use in most areas of Canada.

API classifications are easy for passenger cars and most light trucks. Choose an oil with an API "SJ" or "SL" rating. The SJ rating was established in 1997 and is good for 2001 and earlier vehicles. It set new standards for deposit control, oil oxidation, engine wear, and corrosion protection. It supercedes older SF, SG, and SH ratings. SL oils are the latest designation and are designed to decrease oil consumption even lower. You will find some oils also meet CF-4, CG-4, or CH-4 specs. These are usually designed for heavy-duty diesel truck applications.

Do we need engine oil specifically designed for higher mileage engines? Market trends would indicate we do. Canadians are driving their cars more - an average of 17 - 18,000 kilometres per year. Vehicle durability has improved and vehicles last longer. In the 1970's, vehicles lasted 150-160,000 kilometres. In the 1990's, proper maintenance provided engine durability an average of 260-280,000 kilometres. Engine life is projected at being 320-340,000 kilometres for this decade's engine designs.

Engine leaks are one of the top five automotive warranty concerns. Engine oil specifically designed for high mileage vehicles has a special seal conditioner additive that penetrates the pores of the seals to make them seal more effectively. Better sealing of the valve seals reduces oil consumption past the valve guides and better sealing of crankshaft seals reduces external leaks.

As owners keep their vehicles longer, maintenance becomes even more important and regular oil changes are part of that care. Many auto manufacturers recommend oil changes at 12 to 15,000 km intervals. Better engines enable oil change intervals to be extended. However, extreme cold, high heat, dusty conditions, and short trip driving all qualify the vehicle for the severe maintenance schedule in the owner's manual, which includes more frequent oil changes. Oil Life monitors on many GM, Mercedes-Benz and BMW vehicles calculate oil life based on heat, load and rpm's. Oil change intervals are based on actual needs rather than time or mileage intervals.

There are scores of engine oils on the market. Many of the differences are in the proportions of additives in the additive packages. Detergents are added to clean internal engine parts. Pour point depressants help the oil flow at extreme cold temperatures. Anti-foam additives lower the surface tension of the oil molecules to reduce oil foaming caused by violent churning in the crankcase. Corrosion and rust inhibitors protect engine parts from harmful blow-by products.

Many oil producers do not recommend mixing different brands of oils because of their different additive packages. If an owner is going to change oil brands, an oil change is a convenient time to do it, however, if you need to add oil don't worry if you can't find the same brand. I have never seen an engine fail because someone mixed oil brands but I have seen many fail because they were low on oil. Check that engine oil level often.


Jim Kerr is a master automotive mechanic and teaches automotive technology. He has been writing automotive articles for fifteen years for newspapers and magazines in Canada and the United States, and is a member of the Automotive Journalist's Association of Canada (AJAC).


ciao

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:02 pm 
I can fix the world
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I like......hamburgers



just thought I should add something to this

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:25 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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omgroflbbqwtf!!

ciao

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:33 pm 
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Oil is cool and all, but hamburgers are way more awesome.


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