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 Post subject: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 55
Things are stumbling along on the B20 rebuild. Engine is together, except for distributor. Time to install the clutch. A few questions come up. 1) I've replaced the pilot bearing, it was seized. Same number (6202) but this one has plastic flanges covering the bearings. Does it need lubing? If so, how do I get grease by the flanges? 2) I have a new disc, but the pressure plate has some scoring (a couple of "circles" on the face). Can the pressure plate be resurfaced or am I in for a new one? 3) The throw out bearing seems fine but is quite greasy (old dirty grease) should I get it "repacked"? 4) Is there a "work around" for the special tool that aligns the disc/plate/pilot bearing when installing the clutch? The "lube" questions on the bearings exposes my lack of knowledge here. I know bearings need lube, but lube doesn't appear to be too healthy for the clutch, what gives? Thanks again for the help.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:25 pm 
Whost Pore

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:26 pm
Posts: 558
Location: E-Town
i use a spare input shaft for a tranny to align the clutch, but there is a tool available at canadian tire/autozone, i believe possibly for rent, otherwise it's ~~$30 that will do the same job.


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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:12 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
I've installed a couple dozen transmissions by lining the clutch up by eye, but it took me a while to get it down to where it would go in first time, every time... albeit it almost always fought me. I have an input shaft for a later M46 that I use when I'm changing a clutch in one of them. Most clutch kits I've seen lately come with a cheapo plastic centering device, but it sounds like you just bought the disc and are now in for a pressure plate at least.

The pressure plate cannot be resurfaced - or rather, I should say that it CAN, but you've really got to be a sucker for punishment and cheap as hell to try it, and you'll be better off buying a new one anyway.

The pilot bearing is prelubed, don't touch it. It's only spinning relative to itself when the clutch is in and the engine & clutch are spinning at two different speeds. When the clutch is out, the crankshaft/flywheel/clutch disc/transmission input shaft are locked together, and the pilot bearing is only a centering device.

The throwout bearing should be replaced if you feel any roughness when spinning it (putting pressure on it axially), if you see any discolouration, if you see any damage or wear, or if you feel that the $40 is a good investment in not having to pull your transmission out of your car again any time soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:46 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
What Matt and Eric said - use a centreing tool, it's dead easy. Replace all bearings as a matter of course and my contribution to the discussion...you say that the distributor is out. Did you remember to align the oil pump when you installed it? The shaft that drives the distributor also turns the oil pump and needs to be aligned when installed. The factory guide is pretty hopeless. I found that if the drive gear was istalled correctly the shaft slot sits 90° to the long axis of the engine. This give you the correct 20° offset for the distributor. This makes more sense with an engine in front of you.

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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 55
Thanks guys, great info, just what I needed. Craig, I left the distributor out as I plan to pre load the engine with oil using a shaft and drill.When that job is done I will line up the oil pump as per your instructions. The pump has the IPD bushing on it and I wondered how to get it lined up. I had planned to ask how to line up the oil pump when I got that far. The manual is a little short on remounting the distributor, it tells you what to look for at the top, but no mention of the bottom. Much appreciated.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:03 pm 
Whost Pore

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:26 pm
Posts: 558
Location: E-Town
if you'd like, i can look for my input shaft and toss it in the mail.


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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:49 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
bones wrote:
Thanks guys, great info, just what I needed. Craig, I left the distributor out as I plan to pre load the engine with oil using a shaft and drill.When that job is done I will line up the oil pump as per your instructions. The pump has the IPD bushing on it and I wondered how to get it lined up. I had planned to ask how to line up the oil pump when I got that far. The manual is a little short on remounting the distributor, it tells you what to look for at the top, but no mention of the bottom. Much appreciated.
Bill



The manual only mentions the top view as once the pan is on you can't get at the bottom. I have found that it is difficult to correctly line things up from the top and discovered this trick when I assembled my last engine. I just figured there had to be something very easy to do as on a production line no one is going to be measuring angle separation on a pump...they need to slap it together. So you won't read about this little trick anywhere. Again, engine timed, then install the pump drive shaft which is also the distributor drive, so that the dog that engages the oil pump is perpendicular to the crank mainline and you've got the thing timed right when you put the pump/pan on and flip it over on your engine stand.

I didn't worry about priming the engine the way you are suggesting - it ain't a top fuel dragster. Don't get me wrong, this is the right way to do it and all that, and I for sure would suggest it if I were on the Brickboard. Here's my procedure. The pistons were soaked in oil prior to installation, the bearings and all other metal to metal contact surfaces were coated with break in lube or moly grease (used for cam shaft). The start up oil and cam break in fluid are then added. With the distributor installed, pull the plugs and crank the engine until you get full oil pressure (you're going with a real gauge for the oil pressure not a light right?), put the plugs in and spark it up. It will run and be fine right off the bat - don't let it idle and keep varying the revs for the first couple of minutes. Then DRIVE it and load the engine (pull up hills etc) to help seat the piston rings.

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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 55
Thanks Craig. I didn't soak the pistons, but painted (brush) them and the bore walls with 1/2 STP&1/2 oil. The cam lobes and lifters got healthy shots of moly lube and everything else (bearings and journals) got break in lube (sticky oil). I'll give your startup method a go. I put in a real oil pressure gauge. I just wanted to make sure the filter and galleries were full. Thanks for the offer Rockmonton, but I've sourced a tool from my local mentor. I'm quickly finding out that it isn't necessarily the cost of parts that makes rebuilds expensive, the costs of all the tools needs to be factored in if you start out with a couple of sockets and a crescent wrench. I'm into the "...while the engines out..." stage i.e. bushings for the lower wishbones, u joints etc. etc. etc. I really appreciate the tricks you guys have acquired over your car careers, its making my learning curve much less steep. I'm learning how to post pictures on the internet so I can show off the fruits of "our" labour. Thanks again.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 55
Craig: I just reread your post and picked up on the "oil and cam break in fluid" part. I was just going to put in some 10w30 and change it out after the 20 minute cam break in period. Am I missing something here with respect to "cam break in fluid"?
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:52 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Modern oils don't contain very much high pressure lubricant (ZDDP) - older engines, especially of the push-rod variety require this additive during running and break-in. I run diesel oil (15W40 with diesel approvals) in my B20 as it still contains the additive. I'm still running dino oils for a little bit before switching over to Mobil 1. Comp Cams makes an additive, as do many others. Check in your local auto store for what they have. Older Volvo push rod engines are notorious for being hard on cams/lifters.

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 Post subject: Re: Installing the Clutch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 55
Thanks. I've got a GMC 6.5 Turbo diesel. So 15W40 is something I do have around here.
Bill


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