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 Post subject: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:09 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Hi - the old 122 wagon is stilll not on the road :oops: Amongst the (more credible) reasons is that the clutch is not working - just the hydraulics. It used-to work....

Anyway, since it has rubber parts which I hadn't replaced, I ordered a seal-kit for the master and slave cylinders, and I took-apart the master tonight. The Haynes manual says I have to remove a circlip from the inner push-rod assembly (with the spring, valve, and main seal on it) in order to get it apart. Hmmmmm. I can't see any circlip, nor any other way of getting the thing apart! Has anybody done this recently-enough to remember what gives?? [-o< [-o<

Among the other reasons it has been sitting idle is that the upholstry-shop lost the metal interior trim pieces below the window (they moved, but claim never to have had them). I got new ones, and had them fixed and painted, except the wrong colour.

James


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:23 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
I see that's 12 views, and no replies (yet). I'm going to go out, start the fire, and have another look tonight. Failing some brainstorm, should be able to at least get the slave done - it is simpler.

No-worries.

J


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:38 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
Buy a new one? For the cost it's hardly worth rebuilding the old one. Wilwood makes the exact unit. Not sure of the bore of the original but I suspect it's 5/8"...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WILWOOD- ... _609wt_875

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:53 am 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Heeeeeeeyy! The invisible clip showed itself. \:D/ There is a little tab that you have to bend out with a screwdriver.
It holds the assembly together against spring-pressure.

And now I have a very shiny master-cylinder too, after a bit of effort with the wirewheel. Is there any (simple) way to seal it up so the aluminum doesn't oxidize? I don't imagine laquer would stick. I have a mind to spray it with silicone - the kind you put on the table-saw so everything slides nicely.

J


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:58 am 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Thanks, Dale. I wouldn't have imagined it would be that easy to get a new 50 year-old part!

The workings are so simple (and the bore is lookin' just-fine), so here's hoping this will do it.

J


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:14 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
The enemy to any hydraulic system is water, if the bore in your MC is good you can try rebuilding but in most cases water contamionation will cause pitting which will result in a leak.

DO NOT get any laquer or silicon INSIDE the hydualic system. outside it will not hurt anything but water, grease, oil, anything but brake fluid will contaminate the system, swell the rubber seals and cause hydraulic failure.

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1989 744TI Ford 302, Wilwood Brakes, 5 speed


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:37 pm 
Cams + Headers

Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 55
I'm learning a lot from this discussion as I'm about to tackle the hydraulic clutch parts. I don't want to hijack the thread. But to add to the discussion I will ask. My "slave" bore has white crystals in it which I assume is condensation or water residue. I get the no oil, lacquer, etc. but what about acetone on a rag to wipe out the bore and clean oils etc.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:34 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
Acetone or brake cleaner can be used to clean the parts (never use petroleum based cleaners like solvent). The cyliner should be honed prior to replacing any seals, I personally will not rebuild brake or clutch hydraulics if a new replacement is available, These parts new are usually not expensive and I have never found it worth the time and effort to rebuild unless there in no other option.

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1989 744TI Ford 302, Wilwood Brakes, 5 speed


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:39 am 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Well, here's hoping it will work; I've replaced seals in the clutch before with no problems, maybe I just got lucky. The walls are shiney, with no marks, or pitting.

"Crystals" on aluminum parts: I've seen that before, and I think they are some compound of aluminum - "compounded" with something from the air/moisture. #-o I'm gonna guess aluminum carbonate, but I guess it doesn't really matter. The outcome would be some pitting, however.

Hey - I was going to put hydraulic fluid back in the clutch - seems to me that was what I saw in the manual, although I believe I put brake fluid in them when I did it the last-time. Can anyone explain the difference? I have a very foggy memory sometimes - should know this.

All the best (and Merry Christmas!)


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:49 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
It's just aluminum oxide...and it will cause pits and render the part useless. New are available for cheap and I use DOT4 in mine. No problems.

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Coburn Performance - OCD comes naturally.


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:57 pm 
Canadian Tire Bolt ons
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:21 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Calgary
You want to use brake fluid for the clutch hydraulic system.
Hydraulic fluid will swell every rubber part in the system making it useless. I have yet to see any half ways modern car brake or clutch system use anything but brake fluid.

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2008 V70 3.2 is mine and the Banks--Party time not the Banks anymore!


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:57 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Hi -

Okay, brake-fluid it is! Maybe I DIDN'T use brake-fluid last-time, and that is why my clutch worked - bu only for awhile. The rubbers looked fairly new, but soft-ish alright.

BTW: In order to raise my chances of it working, how does one hone such a small cylinder??

(thanks)


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:00 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
Exactly what ^^^^ said. hydraulic oil or fluid is petroleum based, brake fluid is glycol based. Any petroleum based product will swell and soften the rubber seals destroying them

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1989 744TI Ford 302, Wilwood Brakes, 5 speed


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:04 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
you can actually buy a brake cyliner hone, but you can also use some fine emory paper wrapped around a small dowel, place it in the cylinder bore (lubed with brake fluid) and spin the dowel between your palms (like starting a fire with 2 sticks in boy scouts. as you spin move the dowel in and out to get a nice cross hatch. The easy but more expensive way is a brake cylinder hone in a drill, again lubed with brake fluid

Image

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1989 744TI Ford 302, Wilwood Brakes, 5 speed


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 Post subject: Re: Clutch Master Cylinder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:05 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
Dammit Jim.... :lol:

Just buy a new one...

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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