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 Post subject: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:01 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Hi Guys,

My 122 Wagon is almost on the road. Been chasing around for brake parts to pass the mechanical inspection.

Once I get it running, I'm planning on swapping-over to electronic ignition - I'm interested to know what experience others have; anybody heard of 123 electronic ignitions (no relation to a Volvo 123gt)?

Oh - I'll post the pics I had to take at the shop in order to get insurance.

J


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:54 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
I just installed a 123 in an 1800ES. Quick, painless, and simple. Not cheap, apparently, but probably the very best choice for a bolt-in solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:40 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
I've got the '75 240 set-up in my 122 and it works. I've had it rebuilt, but there is some funky wiring to do to get it to work with the 122. Can be had for cheaper than the 123 unit - but I'm leaning towards that unit as it would clean up the wiring situation and would also offer a few different advance curves to play with to try to get my car even more dialed in.

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Coburn Performance - OCD comes naturally.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:12 am 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Hi - thanks, good to know.

Craig - yes, I installed a 240 electronic ignition in a 122 once too - it worked, but as I recall, required a diode to prevent current from flowing backwards from somewhere or another after starting the vehicle. Luckily, I had just graduated to Electrical Engineering, and was able to flex a bit of mental muscle and figure it out.

Now, where to get the 123 unit? If there is much difference in cost, I'm okay with waiting a bit for shipping.

James


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:58 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Hi again.

I must admit to not knowing too much about advance curves until yesterday. Now, I've done a lot of reading, and I'm wondering if the 123 electronic ignition is what I should have (cost aside for the moment -$500). Clearly, they come highly-recommended everywhere I read about them. But....according to their spec, the curves are pre-set, so you can't monkey with them(?) I have a B20 E - which has the lowest advance for all B20's at high RPM (32 degrees, due to larger exhaust valves I assume), which I believe it reaches at 3800 rpm. This, they say is the factory setting, which will be pretty conservative, and if-so, then with more or less performance mods that may not be the right curve for mine, or anybody-else who has modified the engine. All other settings offer more advance, not less: http://www.123ignition.nl/pdf/123B18B20.pdf. right at the bottom of the file.

To see what I mean, I found a great website which lists all of the factors affecting timing: http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0013.html just scroll down a tad. According to that, with the head ported and shaved, and a (John Parker) header, all three of these call for less advance than what is factory (although, premium gas would move the timing the other way). I guess the question is: how-much difference would it make??? Also, I assume there is no vacuum-advance, which I 'know' is somewhat less important, but still...?

I'm thinking I'd like to stick with a 'real' distributor, get some sensors instead of points, and see what happens with the mechanical advance below 32 - I suppose the only way to know for sure what is right would be to get on a dyno, but for now, I don't think I want a 123 which cannot be altered.

What's the deal with a day at the dyno - what does it cost, and how valuable would it be?

???


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:05 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Heeeeey - I just found this on the 123 electronic ignition website - they now have a tunable electonic ignition system - multi-program, with readings for temp, MAP, advance, etc, etc. Hook-up to a laptop. This is the cat's #$%.

I don't know the price yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:48 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Hmm, dyno time depends on where you are - here in Lethbridge I got 5 pulls for $150. As far as the tuning goes, I've tried everything between 5 and 10 degrees BTDC and with my set up a little less than stock was best (around 8 or so). The curve for the 240 is for a heavier car and a different cam/FI/everything...it's also almost 40 years old and has warn. I had it rebuilt - but would still like to see if something that was factory fresh would be better. I thought that I was getting too much timing all in too soon...but I don't know much about these things.

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Coburn Performance - OCD comes naturally.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 5:52 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Hi Craig, thanks for that - what kind of gas mileage do you get? That should be a pretty-good indicator. I've never seen a carburated B20 get over 30mpg. Usually 28.

Wellll, I ordered one of the tunable units, so we will see. How could I not? :oops: I guess the dyno is a pretty-much given now, as I have the potential to dial it in, but driving-around checking things should be a good learning experience too. I see you can swap programs online too, if there was someone out there with the same unit and same engine.

They are in stock - $US450 plus $25 shipping. Sigh.

Oh, and it does have vacuum advance, my mistake.

I'm pretty-sure I can trust the needle selection by Rhys (rebuilds SU carbs), unless there is a K-cam in there.

And fyi - they have units for electronic ignition too - just two wires.

Any other thoughts out there?

J


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 9:04 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Oh, where to begin...I pretty routinely get 7ish litres/100 km in my car. Somewhere around 36-38 mpg unless I'm north of 80 mpg. So 30 mpg is pretty reasonable. This is with around 160 hp at the crank - so it ain't no B20B. I'd consider Rhys a friend we've been emailing for so long. Don't forget to remind him about your altitude. He usually recommends the BBB for HIF's on warmed up B20's - but they are FAT rich around town. I'm running the BAL profile, which is marginally better, but still rich on the needle in my opinion. Not too sure what's leaner, but I may play with that next year.

I'm really interested in how the programmable unit works...could be the answer to my flat spot. Now if I would just concede that I need to INJECT fuel.

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Coburn Performance - OCD comes naturally.


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 Post subject: Re: Electronic Ignition for my 122
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 5:32 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
Hi Craig -

Wow - 35+ mpg!

I guess I'll have some reporting to do when I get the car - first, the needles, which are DH, I believe. I told him I wasn't going to be driving aggressively, and - surprise - I'm moving to NY this summer, so will be at or near sea-level. I believe the DH is quite lean at low throttle, and generous towards the other end. I'm fine with what he choses, as he knows the mods on the engine. I've now forgotten what the other needles were which he suggested, but when I suggested maybe having both was an option, he seemed to figure I was fine with the DH only. So, the carbs will be one change which will be interesting. I'll try to do two runs and compare fuel use.

123 tunable - I've asked the seller to pre-load it with the factory curve for a B20E. If he can do that, then I can save that one, and make another map with lower advance - starting at 8, and maybe stopping at 30, then see what difference I get at the dyno. I will probably have more questions when I get the unit - there is question of vacuum vs. mechanical advance, which I don't understand yet, but I would imagine again something just slightly lower curve-wise? High vacuum when the throttle is open, and rpms are low, right? And the other situation is high revs, but foot off the gas?

Looking forward to it, and hopefully not too many hours of fiddling.

Jim


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