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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:34 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Thanks Chad - glad you're watching! For all the work it is to make the videos and given my audiences geography - we should all just meet in the garage every so often for a beer and chat. Probably less work!

To add to what Matt has said - I'll fill you in on the rest. It's Friday, and I'm about to correct this junk on the weekend so need a bit of mental exercise. The rest of the story extends past the points that I've made in the video. We've got LCA's pointing in at the front and they're not centred between the rails either. All covered and Matt's nailed the "why this won't sit well with the insane builder" perfectly. Other issues not covered in the video relate to the lack of adjustment that would have resulted with respect to the UCA mounts. The way they sit, twist aside, the static camber was already at or beyond spec due where the plates were located. I've tested this with both the original and the new design plates (of course we used the old plates to make the new ones and copied the mistake). Neither would allow less than -1° ish and with the twist shimming would have yielded different caster on each wheel. I literally just tossed it off the bench one night and almost cried - I could have easily cracked it over the head of the imbecile who "built" it.

Not the end of the world again, as the spec that we're shooting for is -0.6°...but the way that it sits, that's the least that I can get without shims (one one side - the other is different). So I'm setting up for 0° as welded and then will have the adjustment that I need. Now it doesn't seem like a big deal, but this suspension does something that a 122 (or a strut) suspension does not do and that is it has a camber curve! So starting with -1° is great but by 1" of bump you've got another degree. Now it may be that this is perfect when I race I measure tire temps fanatically to get a measure of mechanical grip...race engineer has spec'ed -0.6° - as optimal for my arrangement. Not -0.5° or close to -1°...but -0.6°. If I was running slicks, then more static camber would be needed, but at this point I'd like to at least be able to hit the spec. I can't right now.

Other things also not thoroughly covered (it really is harder than I thought to keep all these details from spilling into EPIC nerdgasim videos) - the steering rack position on the old crossy meant that we had to position the rack in a location that yields sub-optimal Ackermann angles - like verging on equal steering. This was for sure made worse by the correction made for improved caster as we moved the UCA back an inch and got rid of a few degrees of anti-dive. That move pushes the crossy forward and takes the steering rack and the minimum clearance point with it - frick...hadn't thought of that when we mounted the steering or made the UCA bracket fix. Chalk it up to never having done it before.

Last, but not least...in fact perhaps more importantly, was how to get all those bolts on the LCA in double sheer. You'll note that the threaded rod (more on this in a bit) is super small in relation to say what the original Franken-bolt is for size. On suspensions where the LCA is in single shear, you get the strength you need with a massive bolt. I think the stocker is either 5/8" or 3/4" or something (and that's for grand mother's tootling around on Swedish gravel roads, not ham-fisted gorillas yarding on steering wheels at the autocross). So that M12 looks a bit anemic. The suggestion is that you put a little 1/4" flat bar over to the mount somehow and that will be fine. I never really liked that idea. Now back to the threaded rod - it's got a machine cut thread and I know that makes it about as strong as cheese (like grade 3). Threads are roll forged and the material should be very high quality. This rod is pretty generic 1020 or 1018 mild steel.

While I liked the idea of the machined LCA mount, the more I thought about it the less I think it's a great idea for the reasons listed and you're just adding mass to a part that doesn't need the extra weight or strength where it is. It's a typical hot rod design. So there would be ways to tweak it all back to something a little better, but overall it would not help me sleep. I really have honestly struggled with this - it may not be apparent in the videos, but I'm super lost in the forest right now and am fighting my way back. I've got a car cut to shreds with many mistakes being made (and at this point caught...I think...before it gets welded back together). I had said, perhaps too often, that the front end should just go in and then I could make sure it was all square and I could surge forward. Well, I'm getting another unnecessary beating on this part. I often don't have the tools and really don't have the required experience to make this work.

I've redesigned the entire thing based on more current designs that I've seen and added my own ideas. Will it work? Buggered if I know. I've never been less confident about this entire build. I sort of hope this is the low-point and I fully expect to regret writing that.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:57 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Episode 6 -

I'll create a real post later this week.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:41 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
laser cut parts came in as did the rails from Art Morrison. So we're right back to where we were a couple of months ago. The rails came flat packed in a box (I do make a few IKEA jokes in the next video). The final analysis and design of the new suspension is covered on the YouTube channel. This thread is a little a head of the videos...because editing that stuff takes a lot of time.

Ok - so we're working on those LCA parts of the new cross member. They needed to be perfectly square in all dimensions. Sure do wish I had a mill - as doing this with a file is terrible work.

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Can you believe that I spent about 6 hours making these perfect? Neither can I - I should make better choices.

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So the idea is to mount the tabs to these as shown above. Then to put the bolt in double shear, I made these mount brackets.

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A little clean up.
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The way I wanted to mount these required a little bend on the bottom to make the join nice. This way I can reference the top and both sides of the tube when they get welded. I also wanted the full bushing to be captured on the LCA. So the difference required this design. The laser guys cut all these parts...so cheap.

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Jigging these parts isn't easy either. I got lucky and the following looks like a winner. First a flat screw to pick up the centre of the laser cut hole.

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A washer mounted and squared to the back was exactly the right size to sit in the tube (like tap with a hammer). What luck.

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Bam - that looks like a winner.

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Added some flat screws to the 1-2-3 blocks (these are my "good" ones - can't use them for welding...but for show only). Set the screws to exactly 57 mm.

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Then something like this (did I mention I could use a mill?).

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That should work.

You get the idea.

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I then have to weld on the laser cut tubes. So nice to not have to cut this stuff with a hole saw.

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Next up was cutting the AME bent rails. I turned the welding table into a frame rail jig with a little tube. This took several hours of measuring to get right...cutting and fitting the rails was simple.

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I appreciated their efforts to give me a matched pair with weld lines on the same side for the bends...but the bends did have a little twist in them. Nothing I can do about these.

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A little gusset can't hurt - these are going INSIDE the tube for a less agricultural look.

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Nice TIG button welds. I've not finished these just yet - you're as up to date as can be. With luck, we'll get the rest of this done over the weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:01 pm 
Bone stock

Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:53 pm
Posts: 19
My adjustment with a ball peen hammer pales in comparison. Keep up the good work, we’re watching!
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:43 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Aside from the usual Christmas garage wife ban and the weather, things got done. It's been colder than it really needs to be and controlling the TIG with my winter boots on sucks, but we just push on. Just for reference, this was the first of two dumps of snow in the past week.

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Clamp the hell out of everything on the rails in a quest to have them not end up like pretzels.

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Clamps...clamps...clamps.

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Then with the buttons done, the rest got welded. Starting with the 2" side and ending with the longer weld. I stress relieved it with a hammer as I welded and also metal worked that little twist out of the rails. I'd rather not grind the welds.

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Money shots.

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That'll do.

On to the K-member.

Created a jig to position things. Then cleaned all the parts and got it ready to tack...this took 2 days.

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Checked all the dimensions and level in every dimension.

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All tacked up.

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So that's it for now. The steering bracket has to be installed on the cross bar and that has to be fitted still. So far it's dead nuts in every measurable dimension. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

Happy New Year everyone!

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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:23 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Episode 7 is now out - just a quick unboxing and bracket making video. Progress. I'm a few weeks behind on video production.


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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:35 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Bit of a delay as I was sick for a week or so...here's the next instalment.

I could use a few more viewers!


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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:22 pm 
Bone stock

Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:53 pm
Posts: 19
Always interesting, I’m watching!


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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:52 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Time for an update. The IRS subframe has become a bit of a gong-show in this build. It's been in and out of the car so many times. I cover the details in the latest installment on my YouTube channel



but let's just say that I thought it was OK last spring when I finished it up and put it in the car. I just didn't put the control arms and uprights and tires on to check. Mind you...I didn't weld the sheet metal in either. So it turns out not only were the passenger side brackets just a little out, but when I installed the frame, the bushing alignment pins at the front caught on the bushing sleeve and pushed it out of position. This, unbeknownst to me, racked the subframe. I should have double checked...but it looked fine. It was off, and I used that racked alignment to weld in the rear cross member. So the entire thing was borked - causing 1/2" more wheel base on the passenger side.

It was really noticeable when I installed the suspension and tried to locate the front end.

So I cut that junk out and we're doing it again.

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A few brackets and gussets will also help.

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Back together - basically dead on the angle I was looking for.

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Here's the other side...the crappy level is good to 1/10° (I prove this in the video).

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Caster side to side.

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Weld it back together.

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Drill out and remove the rear bushing alignment pins.

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Make new pins.

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Quick dust of paint so it won't rust while I finish the rest of the build.

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And back in the hole - this time everything is perfect.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:51 pm 
Bone stock

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
Well that wasn’t too bad! (In my mind you did this all today as I watched the video only last night, haha!)


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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:51 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Episode 11...and ya, it wasn't that bad to fix, but that doesn't mean it didn't take a month. It did.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:06 am 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 238
Location: Regina, SK
Pretty sure I'm all caught up on vids, then came back her to find them included / integrated into the build thread - great idea.

I know you're putting in a LOT of added effort documenting and doing video to take us along and it's VERY much appreciated.

Looking forward to the next episode. :)

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:17 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Thanks Rabin...it's a lot of effort, but still fun.

Episode 12!


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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:10 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3007
Location: Lethbridge, AB
I guess I forgot to take pictures when I was welding up the UCA brackets. I did take this one. Note the 3/4 aluminum plate I'm using as a heat sink...I don't want this sucker to warp. And it didn't (well, not much).

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I added the front side supports to provide registration on the frame rail and add some strength to the part. The backside of this bracket has 3 - 1/4" thick brackets.

The K-member has been vexing me all week. It was just missing something. So with it all mocked up for welding, I got some inspiration last night and came up with this idea.

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The part I was fretting over was the front mount point. It only went to the bottom of the frame. I need it to get some method of registering it to the side of the frame rail. This will allow me to ensure that things are going to stay square and parallel.

So I just added this bracket.

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It fits like this.
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Then settled in for a long dime stacking session.

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And done! Had to stretch it a little post weld to get it all back straight. I'm happy with how it all turned out.

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Next up. Steering bracket. I'll probably mock this up on the frame first then get it fitted into the car...then dick around with this weldment.

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Moving on to this next mock up tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Canuck - 1966 Canadian Build Thread ... Finally
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:01 pm 
Bone stock

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Southern Alberta
Looking good Craig! You make me never want to do this stuff. I had dreams of repowered an old Landrover, now I’m pretty sure it’s too much effort :-)

Carry on.


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