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 Post subject: Re: 123 GT Project (long term)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:16 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1868
Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
Progress is good!

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Hi, I drive a fictional star wars character with rear wheel drive. His name is Darth Wagon, he has a shiny helmet.
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 Post subject: Re: 123 GT Project (long term)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:30 am 
First volvo in outer space
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:46 pm
Posts: 1594
Location: East L.A.
Good to see you're getting your mojo back!!

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Jim

66 122S (Garage Queen)
89 244 (Hers)
90 745Ti (Mine)
89 744 (SOLD/Bought back for other daughter)
78 242GT (Project... LOL)
91 244 (Don't Ask!!)


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 Post subject: Re: 123 GT Project (long term)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:55 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3366
Location: Calgary, Ab
It's tough, Jim. I need to get over this hurdle and get back on the horse, otherwise the car will get forgotten about and rot.

Last night I tried bolting up the front suspension from the GT. Not a freakin' chance! The crossmember wouldn't bolt onto the frame sections. For a moment there I was mentally clearing my schedule so I could rent a U-Haul to crush the whole thing and moving on to my next project, until I tried bolting up the crossmember from the '69. That one fit without any drama.

I took some quick measurements, and comparing the two crossmembers the '67 was 10mm narrower at the dogbone mounting pads and 6mm narrower at the frame mounting flanges than the '69. The '69 crossmember was as near to 700mm from hole to hole as you'd like, which matches up to my blown-up drawing of an Amazon unibody.

That '67 had such a weak, cracked, flimsy front frame, the crossmember must have been the only thing holding it all together. The abuse obviously took it's toll. Good thing I've got a good one, and another one sitting in Craig's car that I presume is good as well.

I bolted up some suspension and mocked up the ride height, and with the 16x7 ET12 wheel I'm using for mockup I think it'll rub the new part of the lower firewall at full lock, but it will be rubbing the frame at the same time. Not a big deal, I can clearance it if needed. Once I get a tire on the wheel I'll know more, but this gave me enough confidence to continue.

I also checked the level again, everything still looks good.


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 Post subject: Re: 123 GT Project (long term)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:10 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3366
Location: Calgary, Ab
Not much is happening on this car until I can dig it out of storage, which probably won't be until late spring this year or so, but I'm still making some small measures of progress in the meantime. I've gone JY diving, for one:

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What you see here are an esoteric collection of parts that may or may not work together. Some of you were aware that my plans for this car include a custom front suspension to escape a few disadvantages of staying stock. The plan was to build a custom upright around a modern hub/wheel bearing assembly and the geometry I'm looking for, and it still might come to that, but in the meantime I found these nifty pieces:

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They're from a 2007 Ford Crown Victoria cop car. Cast alloy with beefy balljoints and a modern wheel bearing assembly, somewhat decent geometry, and not nearly as heavy as they look (still pretty heavy). They'll be basically bomb-proof under my little car. Speaking of bomb-proof, check out the lower arms from the same car:

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They are designed to run with between 5.7 and 6.2 degrees of caster which will make the steering heavier at speed, but this will be offset somewhat by reducing the scrub radius by about 2 full inches, or taking it from 3.25" down to 1.25". This will reduce the tugging and pulling and the effect of tramlining, plus will reduce the parking lot effort. In order to get the scrub down the kingpin inclination angle is higher than the 122, but in the corners this is more than offset by the increase in caster.

The Crown Vic used a front-steer arrangement and rack & pinion, which is exactly what I want to do to get rid of that massive steering box and the wild swing of the cross link. I might be delusional or making bad decisions, but I don't want a power rack either. I do want something narrow, and with a reasonable ratio and a long enough throw to move the fairly long Crown Vic steering arms far enough to have a tight turning circle. The solution (?) comes from the '60s in the form of an MGB. The pinion shaft is far too long so I'll have to cut it down, but it's going to give me a reduction in turns lock-to-lock while still giving me a fairly tight turning circle.

The Crown Vic brakes are massive and heavy and gross, not something I want to run on this car. Two piston sliding cast iron calipers on a 12x1.1" rotor will stop a 4500 lb police car, but also weigh a ton themselves. They also wouldn't clear the wheels I plan to run. I have dug through the Wilwood catalogue and came up with a combination of parts that should work, provided I can build a hat and adapter to make them fit. I haven't gone this far yet, but I'll need to before I can lock down the design.

With the hub-to-hub dimension fixed, and with the steering rack setting the location of the lower control arm inner pivots, I can begin to design the upper arms and the custom crossmember.

Because simple isn't good enough for me, I'm not satisfied using the IPD rear sway bar on this car. Honestly, I don't think it'll be stiff enough, so something else was always going to be needed. My first pull was from a '99 Mercury Marquis with the handling package, and from an '00 Focus wagon.

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Both will be stiffer than the IPD bar. The Marquis piece mounts on the axle and the arm ends are a little too far apart, but they can be bent inwards easily enough. The Focus bar is considerably narrower and I would mount it the other way: weld a crossmember onto the car just above the driveshaft tunnel and mount the sway bar to that, and link down to the rear axle. They're both arranged here in the configurations I'm describing. Problem is, the Focus bar is so stubby that it's much stiffer than I need, and until 2008 this was the smallest bar Ford installed on these cars (aside from no bar at all). I got lucky though, and found a 2013 in the JY.

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The bar mounts almost exactly the same but is 2mm smaller in diameter, and would end up roughly the same stiffness as the Mercury bar but weighs less and contributes less to the (already too much) unsprung weight in the rear, plus I have options and if I want it stiffer I can run the older Focus bar.

(I believe the rear bar will need to be stiffer than the IPD because the roll center in the front will be raised up nearly 4 inches from where the IPD bars were intended to be used, and that will require more rear stiffness to keep the balance. I could be way off base, though... I guess we'll see.)

I'll be able to model up some parts now and will figure out if I can or can't use these things, and to come up with the crossmember design while I work on the 122. I'll want all of that in place so I can determine where the steering rack goes and what I have to do to the steering shaft to miss things like motor mounts.

I haven't completely forgotten about this car...


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 Post subject: Re: 123 GT Project (long term)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:30 pm 
Vmax 200mph w00t!
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:21 pm
Posts: 265
Location: Saskatoon, Sk
I'm in awe of your ability to understand component geometry and immediately be able to translate that into some measure of it's affect on driveability... Your practical knowledge is baffling!
Love the updates. Carry on!

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94' 944t "The Good One"
87' 780 5.0L V8


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 Post subject: Re: 123 GT Project (long term)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:48 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3366
Location: Calgary, Ab
I still haven't forgotten about this car - it's sitting right next to the other Amazon I haven't forgotten about, hiding at Mom's place.

Pix updated.


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