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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:01 pm 
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Ugly Duck wrote:
I don't think that's what Craig's saying at all. If you want to know what needs to be done, just ask, but don't expect there to be a shopping list of parts in a junkyard or off-the-shelf that you'll discover. To do what you want to do is a lot of fab work and a lot of custom parts. Fitting an intercooler and a cooling system capable enough is one challenge. Getting an intake manifold that fits is another. There are at least three of us who know about this stuff and are willing to help if you're willing to listen and do the fabrication, but you need to ask the question and stop waiting for us to give you the recipe.


I AM asking... I'm putting together my own "shopping list." This allows me to help research line items, budget, and help others. I already know custom fab work will be required and will have to seek local help for that. In my posts, I have asked for help. People have commented and then I have researched. My threads are evident of that.

I appreciate the help and support, but your post comes across as rude and negative and doesn't make people eager to stay in the community or ask questions.

My goal is to make a one stop shop/ post for people to utilize to get them in the right direction. Information is key. If someone has never done this before, they're going to ask generic questions to help pin point key details. Getting frustrated with that person and telling to just use a search function or google, isn't always the answer. Some people like a more personnel approach and like interacting with others.

I welcome your thoughts and advice TOWARDS the build. However, if your comments don't specifically help towards that goal, then ask you to respect my thread and not comment.

Again, I appreciate the help and support. I mean this with utmost respect.

Thanks,

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HUBBARD

68 122s Wagon
B230FT Swap in 122 Discussion
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Last edited by HUB on Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:03 pm 
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Pylon wrote:
Spend a few hours here...

http://www.calgaryvolvoclub.com/gallery/v/Pylon/

And here...

http://s377.photobucket.com/user/1turbo ... t=2&page=1

http://s377.photobucket.com/user/1turbo ... t=2&page=1

http://s377.photobucket.com/user/1turbo ... t=2&page=1

http://s377.photobucket.com/user/1turbo ... t=2&page=1

http://s377.photobucket.com/user/1turbo ... t=2&page=1

http://s377.photobucket.com/user/1turbo ... t=2&page=1

http://s377.photobucket.com/user/1turbo ... t=2&page=1

http://s377.photobucket.com/user/1turbo ... t=2&page=1

Some is applicable. Some may not be. Either way I think it goes to show the work that's been done to a 122 by some of the members here. Most is of my car but I certainly can't take credit for the creativity or expertise that went into actually doing it. I came up with the dumb ideas. Craig and Matt just shrugged their shoulders and went mmmmmmmmmmmkay....


Haha. Thank you. Some great pictures and info! Will start going through these to help pin point anything I need.

Thanks!

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HUBBARD

68 122s Wagon
B230FT Swap in 122 Discussion
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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:52 pm
Posts: 49
That thing looks so solid! Don't let the work involved with swapping an OHC deter you from getting it done, just bust it all into bite sized chunks and eat accordingly. It's been done before, and anything is possible with a grinder, a good welder, and the ability to use them. Being that space is on the tight side, have you thought about doing a remote mount turbo? I've seen a few mid/rear mount builds in other groups, Nissan Z32 300ZX forums being one that I was most active in, and the builders have no complaints over them. One guy was using a Holset HY, and said that lag was basically on par with a factory twin turbo setup, except he could have the turbo out from underneath the car in about 5 minutes, as opposed to the 10 hours to pull the motor. Would definitely be something I'd look into for your wagon. Definitely following this one to see what happens.

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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:11 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
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Location: Lethbridge, AB
HUB wrote:
Ugly Duck wrote:
I don't think that's what Craig's saying at all. If you want to know what needs to be done, just ask, but don't expect there to be a shopping list of parts in a junkyard or off-the-shelf that you'll discover. To do what you want to do is a lot of fab work and a lot of custom parts. Fitting an intercooler and a cooling system capable enough is one challenge. Getting an intake manifold that fits is another. There are at least three of us who know about this stuff and are willing to help if you're willing to listen and do the fabrication, but you need to ask the question and stop waiting for us to give you the recipe.


I AM asking... I'm putting together my own "shopping list." This allows me to help research line items, budget, and help others. I already know custom fab work will be required and will have to seek local help for that. In my posts, I have asked for help. People have commented and then I have researched. My threads are evident of that.

I appreciate the help and support, but your post comes across as rude and negative and doesn't make people eager to stay in the community or ask questions.

My goal is to make a one stop shop/ post for people to utilize to get them in the right direction. Information is key. If someone has never done this before, they're going to ask generic questions to help pin point key details. Getting frustrated with that person and telling to just use a search function or google, isn't always the answer. Some people like a more personnel approach and like interacting with others.

I welcome your thoughts and advice TOWARDS the build. However, if your comments don't specifically help towards that goal, then ask you to respect my thread and not comment.

Again, I appreciate the help and support. I mean this with utmost respect.

Thanks,


Hmmm, I didn't see this on the way past Dale's photo post (a fun trip down memory lane). You're new here - and Matt was smacking the spike right on the head with his comments above. Which were entirely positive and on the right track. He took the time to show you what's been done. Relax. What you're going to find is what you've found. A few random shots of the tilty engine in a 122 engine bay and no details. This isn't going to cut it as you're not it fabricating yourself. Whoever is doing the work will get it done their own way.

As a project - you've defined the scope, so now it's time to start dividing it into small chunks (that's what Matt's saying) and start looking for specific details. My comment was that there are lots of people on TBrix that will offer you their opinion (your thread has caught the usual suspects) it's just that they haven't done anything...this is what they do - all talk.

So how about breaking it down for us...we're getting asked to just core dump what we know. I don't have that kind of time. We'll help.

Just as a side note, asking one of the top builders who's done this to kindly get out of your thread is about the craziest thing I've seen on this forum. Ever.

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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:18 pm 
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curtalcorn wrote:
That thing looks so solid! Don't let the work involved with swapping an OHC deter you from getting it done, just bust it all into bite sized chunks and eat accordingly. It's been done before, and anything is possible with a grinder, a good welder, and the ability to use them. Being that space is on the tight side, have you thought about doing a remote mount turbo? I've seen a few mid/rear mount builds in other groups, Nissan Z32 300ZX forums being one that I was most active in, and the builders have no complaints over them. One guy was using a Holset HY, and said that lag was basically on par with a factory twin turbo setup, except he could have the turbo out from underneath the car in about 5 minutes, as opposed to the 10 hours to pull the motor. Would definitely be something I'd look into for your wagon. Definitely following this one to see what happens.


Appreciate the comment. The thing that concerns me is more the tuning aspect and wiring. I'm still researching and waiting the response of a few people.

If I can't figure it out, I'll end up going with a platform I'm more familiar with, but I'm sure the swap has never been done.

Thanks,

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HUBBARD

68 122s Wagon
B230FT Swap in 122 Discussion
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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:21 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3366
Location: Calgary, Ab
Here's some reference material for you:

http://www.tinustuning.nl/ttg/?p=160

http://youtu.be/ks9o7nYhX00 (an 1800, but basically the same)

http://volvolvo.nl/threads/14356-Volvo- ... FT-Project

http://www.google.ca/search?q=b230ft+12 ... YQ_AUoATgU


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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:53 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 2983
Location: Lethbridge, AB
HUB wrote:
Appreciate the comment. The thing that concerns me is more the tuning aspect and wiring. I'm still researching and waiting the response of a few people.

If I can't figure it out, I'll end up going with a platform I'm more familiar with, but I'm sure the swap has never been done.

Thanks,



What part of the wiring is tripping you up? Have you settled on an EMS yet (LH 2.2 and 2.4 were in the mix last I heard). Lemme see, Greg and I just wrapped up the testing for Dave Barton on the LH 2.2 conversion harness and I've just finished a 2.4 swap. Wiring isn't that hard to work out either way (so long as Dave has the dizzy wired correctly on the production harnesses!).

The Bentley manual for 240's goes over a complete harness check procedure for all EMS's that were on the car...and has complete wiring diagrams. Once you've made your call on what system you're running, then you have around 30 checks to do that fully check out the installation and ensure that it will fire and run properly. The engine side is easy (no really, it's just plugging in sensors and injectors/idle control assuming you've got a proper harness). That's the way you figure out the running side of things on these cars.

LH is pretty straight forward which is why everyone's sort of sitting and staring right now. Think of it this way, the engine has two separate but related control loops. One loop gathers information about engine state (coolant temperature, O2, mass of the air, knock, rpm signal for ignition (either through a real distributor on 2.2 or from a crank sensor on 2.4). Then it uses this information to run the ignition computer (EZK) and batch fires the injectors ECU or control idle. These are the on the "output" loop - at least in my head this is how it works. It's all as simple as it comes with respect to operation and in comparison to more modern systems.

Then there are either 3 or 5 wires that need to be connected to run power to things at the right time or to run the fuel pumps. They are even on a separate harness that goes in beside the computer connectors (either a 4 pin in the case of LH 2.2 or 9 pin in 2.4). That's it. In 2.2 you only need 3 wires and in 2.4 you need 5 of the 9 (unless you're running AC, and a bunch of other stuff you don't have). Now your car will need to have fuel pumps added (and supply and return lines - we've covered this) and you're going to need 4 extra fuses to run the EMS (not including the wire that goes directly to the battery). So you've got to decide how you're going to work out switched and constant power to these fuses...piggy back on what is there already or rewire the entire car.

For LH 2.4 you need a speed sender to send a pulse (and the computer doesn't care about the number of pulses per mile). You can do this any number of ways - I ran a converter from a Ford VSS (because I'm running a Ford T5 transmission) to a Dakota Digital converter to change the VSS sine wave into a square wave that I feed to the computer. This signal tells the computer two things. The first is it tells the computer when the car is idling and not moving (running, but no signal) so that it manages the Idle Air Control (IAC) motor properly and then also resolves when you're moving but have your foot off the pedal (as in coasting down a hill) - in this case it cuts the fuel to the injectors and the baby seals rejoice.

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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:29 am 
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122_Canuck wrote:
HUB wrote:
Appreciate the comment. The thing that concerns me is more the tuning aspect and wiring. I'm still researching and waiting the response of a few people.

If I can't figure it out, I'll end up going with a platform I'm more familiar with, but I'm sure the swap has never been done.

Thanks,



What part of the wiring is tripping you up? Have you settled on an EMS yet (LH 2.2 and 2.4 were in the mix last I heard). Lemme see, Greg and I just wrapped up the testing for Dave Barton on the LH 2.2 conversion harness and I've just finished a 2.4 swap. Wiring isn't that hard to work out either way (so long as Dave has the dizzy wired correctly on the production harnesses!).

The Bentley manual for 240's goes over a complete harness check procedure for all EMS's that were on the car...and has complete wiring diagrams. Once you've made your call on what system you're running, then you have around 30 checks to do that fully check out the installation and ensure that it will fire and run properly. The engine side is easy (no really, it's just plugging in sensors and injectors/idle control assuming you've got a proper harness). That's the way you figure out the running side of things on these cars.

LH is pretty straight forward which is why everyone's sort of sitting and staring right now. Think of it this way, the engine has two separate but related control loops. One loop gathers information about engine state (coolant temperature, O2, mass of the air, knock, rpm signal for ignition (either through a real distributor on 2.2 or from a crank sensor on 2.4). Then it uses this information to run the ignition computer (EZK) and batch fires the injectors ECU or control idle. These are the on the "output" loop - at least in my head this is how it works. It's all as simple as it comes with respect to operation and in comparison to more modern systems.

Then there are either 3 or 5 wires that need to be connected to run power to things at the right time or to run the fuel pumps. They are even on a separate harness that goes in beside the computer connectors (either a 4 pin in the case of LH 2.2 or 9 pin in 2.4). That's it. In 2.2 you only need 3 wires and in 2.4 you need 5 of the 9 (unless you're running AC, and a bunch of other stuff you don't have). Now your car will need to have fuel pumps added (and supply and return lines - we've covered this) and you're going to need 4 extra fuses to run the EMS (not including the wire that goes directly to the battery). So you've got to decide how you're going to work out switched and constant power to these fuses...piggy back on what is there already or rewire the entire car.

For LH 2.4 you need a speed sender to send a pulse (and the computer doesn't care about the number of pulses per mile). You can do this any number of ways - I ran a converter from a Ford VSS (because I'm running a Ford T5 transmission) to a Dakota Digital converter to change the VSS sine wave into a square wave that I feed to the computer. This signal tells the computer two things. The first is it tells the computer when the car is idling and not moving (running, but no signal) so that it manages the Idle Air Control (IAC) motor properly and then also resolves when you're moving but have your foot off the pedal (as in coasting down a hill) - in this case it cuts the fuel to the injectors and the baby seals rejoice.


Sorry I didn't respond sooner to this (been on vacation).

I think you just cleared up a lot for me. Now I'm just going to add up the cost and decide which platform I want to go with.

Thanks again as always!

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HUBBARD

68 122s Wagon
B230FT Swap in 122 Discussion
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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:20 pm 
0-60 in VERY FAST
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I've noticed most of the guys here have commented on this picture in the past
Image

It seems it's very common to mount the engine in the natural slant. I'm sure Matt you've test fitted this? What were your thoughts? I think with a pro turbo style header it might make it that much easier.


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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:48 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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I have not seen that photo. They must have raised the engine a great deal to get it to fit, but no I have not test fitted it that way.


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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:02 pm 
0-60 in VERY FAST
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Ugly Duck wrote:
I have not seen that photo. They must have raised the engine a great deal to get it to fit, but no I have not test fitted it that way.


http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost. ... stcount=16
Are you creeped out by me now :mrgreen: ?


I knew I bought this 91 940 for some reason (buyers remorse since day 2), it can donate its guts to my 122 sometime.
My 122 is a good test mule for wedging a motor into. Maybe not until fall though.
Image
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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:04 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
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Matt has mentally blocked any post he ever made on T'Bricks... #-o

I don't know how all that fits without some major changes that we can't see.

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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:14 am 
0-60 in VERY FAST
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Pylon wrote:
Matt has mentally blocked any post he ever made on T'Bricks... #-o

I don't know how all that fits without some major changes that we can't see.


Yes agreed, must be a ton of stuff modified down below. I figured one of you guys would of tried it so I had to ask.

It's one of those pictures that can't be unseen for me, it's in there with all the stock bits looking half decent. I always figured a cheap intake solution might be a crappy b21ft intake with injector bungs welded in.

But when it comes to swaps I expect the worst, there is a reason everyone doesnt just set a stock b230ft in. But I've noticed lots of swedish folk keep it slanted even with 16vs.


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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:40 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Geoff240Ti wrote:


I will say this now: whafuq? I apologize, I have zero memory of this.


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 Post subject: Re: HUB's 1968 122s Wagon Project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:43 pm 
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And the fun begins...

Image

Image

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68 122s Wagon
B230FT Swap in 122 Discussion
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