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 Post subject: Re: 00' V70R upgrades (R-mani, billet 19T compressor wheel)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:13 am 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 236
Location: Regina, SK
Quick update on tuning progress:

Version 6 of the tune is still seeing detonation and as high as 6 degrees timing being pulled on certain cylinders. (ME7 is pretty damn amazing - quite impressed with the individual timing control).

Robert (Hilton Tuning) was stumped as was I so I tied into the car to see if anything was out of the ordinary. Found oil in the intake piping and the source appears to be the PTC connection on the Snabb intake pipe. Working scenario is that the PCV oil trap is full / unable to drain and I'm getting enough oil in the intake at WOT to cause detonation.

PCV was spotless when I did it 100K ago, and it's been run on synthetic the whole time so I can't see it being plugged up - but the only way to inspect properly is to pull it apart and I may as well replace it all if I'm checking it. Will be seeing just how good FCPEuro's lifetime return policy is as I bought all the PCV stuff from them and they said they'll warranty it all if I send it all back.

Will update with pictures once the PCV stuff comes in - REALLY hope that's the cause and I can use WOT without fear. Have no idea how detonation resistant the engine is - but it's scary has hell doing data logs of WOT runs knowing it might be seeing detonation - so hopefully I can get it sorted soon.

On the plus side - holy crap is the car quick. Part throttle acceleration and the odd 3/4 throttle and the car really moves quick - So much so that when I drove the 06VR I was thinking the older R might just be quicker now. Definitely sounds better than the 06VR.

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: 00' V70R upgrades (R-mani, billet 19T compressor wheel)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:58 am 
Turbo'd and Intercooled!

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:02 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Calgary, AB
bean wrote:
Quick update on tuning progress:

Version 6 of the tune is still seeing detonation and as high as 6 degrees timing being pulled on certain cylinders. (ME7 is pretty damn amazing - quite impressed with the individual timing control).

Robert (Hilton Tuning) was stumped as was I so I tied into the car to see if anything was out of the ordinary. Found oil in the intake piping and the source appears to be the PTC connection on the Snabb intake pipe. Working scenario is that the PCV oil trap is full / unable to drain and I'm getting enough oil in the intake at WOT to cause detonation.

PCV was spotless when I did it 100K ago, and it's been run on synthetic the whole time so I can't see it being plugged up - but the only way to inspect properly is to pull it apart and I may as well replace it all if I'm checking it. Will be seeing just how good FCPEuro's lifetime return policy is as I bought all the PCV stuff from them and they said they'll warranty it all if I send it all back.

Will update with pictures once the PCV stuff comes in - REALLY hope that's the cause and I can use WOT without fear. Have no idea how detonation resistant the engine is - but it's scary has hell doing data logs of WOT runs knowing it might be seeing detonation - so hopefully I can get it sorted soon.

On the plus side - holy crap is the car quick. Part throttle acceleration and the odd 3/4 throttle and the car really moves quick - So much so that when I drove the 06VR I was thinking the older R might just be quicker now. Definitely sounds better than the 06VR.

Rabin


Great progress Rabin!!!

How is Hilton to deal with? I hear nothing but good things about them from other forums...

As for oil carry over to your intake tube, and eventually your manifold, and then your cylinders this is quite common... I am surprised the tuner has suggested you simply install a catch can in between your PCV and the PTC valve? What ends up happening as you run more boost (I don't know how much more the Hilton tune is calling for over stock), the crank case pressure builds up creating a scenario, where you don't have to have a blockage, but something that should gravity drain will not drain as freely given the crankcase back pressure, which is only relieved via sending vents to the intake tube, now as this happens, it can't help but carry over oil, just a by product of fluid dynamics (fluids will always choose the path of least resistance)...

Pull your intake off of your turbo, and if you have pooling or a puddle of oil in your intake tube, or on the edge of your turbo inlet, that will go into your engine and surely affect how your engine is running.

Add an external catch can is very simple and can be done in 1 hour, if you have an idea on how you want to route everything. Pop the hood, pick a spot that is convenient for routing and draining, yes you will have to drain this catch can, periodically (cant tell you how often) this will depend on a plethora of factors (engine shape, driving habits, etc...), but if you start by draining it daily, you will see how much you are draining out, and you can tell if you can drain it every 2,3 or once a week or once a month, etc...

On my old 850 I had a catch can that initially was a closed system (exactly what I am proposing you start off with, meaning PCV vents into one port on the catch can, and out the other port into the PTC, speaking of PTC can you drill that out, that is a common modification to reduce restriction or to enable the PCV system to relieve/ breathe better)... As the build got crazier I changed from a closed system to an atmospheric vent system... I did this for a variety of reasons, but mainly greater performance (more boost) translated into more carry over, meaning I had to drain this thing way more frequently, and in the winter time it got really bad, so I opted to vent to atmosphere (was really stinky, not ideal for a daily driver or winter car).

On the current car, I had the stock setup, but I also put a "T" with a drift tube, that simply snaked its way to the bottom of my engine bay, I did this primarily to relieve crank case pressure, for my turbo drain tube to effectively drain, and not cause any issues. where I spliced the "T" in it is at a much higher elevation than the PCV box, its almost at the same level as the valve cover, meaning not only would my box have to fill up with liquid, but the line running over to the intake tube, and the then build up liquid level another 6" to start leaking out of my tube... so as pressurized vent was escaping it would choose the path of least resistance, I have just given it another breathing option so not all the vents are going to the intake tube. This might not be an ideal solution for everyone, but thought I would mention it as well...

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Ahmad
1996 Volvo 850 Platinum Edition
R Manifold, 54Trim Stage III Turbo, 550cc @ 3bar Inj, 3" Turbo-back, Custom Intake Manifold, Turbo Tuner, BOV, FMIC, Crane Ign, 5spd Swap, KONI FSD & Eibach Susp, IPD Sways and BBK, 384whp & 363wtq


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 Post subject: Re: 00' V70R upgrades (R-mani, billet 19T compressor wheel)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:53 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 236
Location: Regina, SK
Thanks for your thoughts on this, and it pretty much sums up my thoughts on how I should fix it, but I'll add some background...

Prior to the turbo rebuild (and all the mods) I was getting lots of blowing blue after WOT and I assumed it was the turbo seals which made sense at 250K with oily intake pipes (turbo showed signs of oil leaking into compressor when I rebuilt it). I had also heard the odd detonation sound at WOT even on the stock tune - This I attributed to possibly poor atomization of the original injectors so I installed new ones with the tune.

What I missed cluing in on was that I was also starting to get a bit more oil loss at the seals, and the dipstick had popped up a couple times soaking the front of the motor (which I attributed to hard dipstick o-rings). Didn't even think about crankcase pressure / PCV possibly being plugged as it was spotless when I changed it all out in 2011.

Now that I know that there potentially may have been some PCV issues prior to all the mods, I want to make sure the PCV system is 100% functional with no drain issues just for peace of mind. Upgrading the system at the same time is also very much part of the process with a few mods:

- See if I can mod the PCV trap to have filter screen on output.
- Installing an air compressor 'dryer' as the catch can before the PTC.
- Running a parallel 5/8" hose to the 'catch can' (PCV trap to PTC)
- Drilling the PCV out bigger - just wasn't sure how much I could go without wrecking the heater element.

That should fix it, but if not I'll look at an E-Vac kit (https://www.amazon.ca/Vibrant-11189-E-V ... B002USFCV2) to see if this might be worth installing as the vacuum source instead of the intake pipe - or potentially as a parallel source of vacuum for the PCV system.

Hopefully the E-Vac kit won't be needed and the intake connection will remain oil free with the above mods.

Answers:

Current PSI: datalog has shown a high of 18psi with 100% throttle - I've seen it hit 21 psi - but that was after I let off and it recorded the pressure spike. Once I've got no detonation I'll post some logs so you guys can get an idea of the boost numbers by RPM. (Sadly I can't do a comparison log with stock tune as the rear O2 delete really messes up the stock tune and it runs like crap.)

Hilton Tuning: Initial impressions weren't the best as he wasn't very quick to respond when the first tune was causing the car to go into a super rich limp home mode and it was throwing front O2 CELs. His first reply was it had to be the car- Which I knew it wasn't. Once he fixed those first couple tunes and we got to datalogging and getting revisions he's been awesome (Send datalog in and have a new tune for the next day). I went with him based on his rep and the reviews and they're all 100% accurate - and I'd use him again for sure.

Car was quick before and now it's a bit of a beast since it feels like it has very little of the previous turbo lag and the power feels like it hits sooner, more linearly, and harder without the torque delimiting and the higher torque requests.

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: 00' V70R upgrades (PTC version 1 upgrade)
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:03 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 236
Location: Regina, SK
Hi guys,

After much research and poking around in the car I came up with what I figure will be a decent upgrade for the factory PCV system. Figured I'd post version 1 of the PCV upgrade for feedback before install:

This is the new oil trap - I drilled a hole centered on the internal plastic tube inside the trap, and then drilled out the hole with the largest stepped bit I had - luckily it just fits the largest PCV rubber grommet I could find at Canadian tire:

Image

Was hoping to use some 1.25" copper pipe, but 3/4" pipe with fittings fit the grommet perfectly - so I came up with this copper "filter" element to fit inside the trap, and the 1/2" reducer is the same size as the factory conection. Tube was cut at the exact angle of the bottom of the oil trap, and it has a couple drain holes at the lowest part for oil draining:

Image

Lightly filled the inside with course stainless steel scouring pads:

Image

Perfect fit:

Image

Since the car already has an oil trap, I kept coming back to making it better / more functional so that I didn't have to have a second trap that needed emptying. It also has well thought out heated vent lines and the heated PTC (which I will drill out further as well) which all make good sense for our cold winters.

Once installed I'll do some more datalogging and hopefully the detonation I was seeing on longer WOT pulls will be gone. I hope. :)

On a side note - went to Saskatoon this past weekend and the car got the best fuel economy I've ever seen (sub 10L/100K) since I bought the car (125KPH). Was so impressed that on the way back I set the cruise at 110KPH and the car was under 8.5L/100K for the trip back (no tail wind either). SUPER happy with the improvement in economy.

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: 00' V70R upgrades (R-mani, billet 19T compressor wheel)
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:34 pm 
First volvo in outer space
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:46 pm
Posts: 1590
Location: East L.A.
Nice work Rabin, need dyno numbers now. :D

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66 122S (Garage Queen)
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