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 Post subject: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:21 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
I have been storing some stuff outdoors for too long and it's time for some of it to go.

M46 transmission: I tore it down years ago and put new bearings and synchro rings in it, but the overdrive slips in reverse.

M47 transmission, unknown quality. I was told it was pretty well hammered on, I was going to tear down the M46 and build up the M47 using the best parts.

Leftover 780 parts: brake/clutch pedal set, clutch master cylinder, 3.31:1 locker diff (IRS), rear sway, rear control arms.

Lefover PRV-6 parts: bellhousing (on M46 transmission right now) clutch fork, flywheel, pressure plate, disc (all of this is for a B27/B28 and early coarse spline M46), Eagle Premier crankshaft, pistons, rods, cylinder sleeves.

Powerstoke intercooler

Intercooler from some other truck, possibly a Nissan UD or whatever it is.

Radiator from a 740

Leftover Ford 302 parts: KB pistons on Eagle rods, Crane 224/232 roller cam, and I think some front end parts from an Explorer engine.

Make offers please. Needs to go soon or into the metal bin it goes.

Edit - also I have a crapload of 122 hubcaps. Who doesn't?


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:57 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 248
Location: Regina, SK
Interested in the PRV parts...

Any details on condtion they're in? I've got both the even fire 2850cc engine, and the earlier odd fire PRV's - Must do some checking on feasibility / usability in either for adding a little displacement as part of a rebuild.

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:17 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
The rods/pistons/cylinders were pulled from an Eagle with 113,000 km IIRC. The crank was from a different one, the clutchy stuff is from a 262C. The cylinders will fit into a B280 block, not the oddfire stuff, but the oddfire crank will go into the evenfire block. The flyeheel doesn't have crank trigger holes and the bellhousing doesn't have a mount for a sensor. The hydraulics are gross, need rebuilding... everything's been stored without a ton of care, I didn't have a lot of climate controlled storage back then (still don't). Reciprocating parts were at least kept dry, though. If you're interested I can dig everything out and send some pix over the next while.


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:45 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 248
Location: Regina, SK
Not in any hurry, but would still hate to see them get binned so let me know.

Curious what it would take to build 3L oddfire out of the older motor - I assume I'll need the even fire block at least? I'll have to reread your build thread!

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:50 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
As far as I remember (and I don't mind talking about this)...

You'll want the B280 block and main caps for sure. You'll want the camshafts and rockertrain too. I'm not sure what else you want from that engine. Possibly the distributor.

From an Eagle Premier ('91-92) you'll want to pick up the crank pulley, water pump assembly, cylinder heads, and maybe exhaust manifolds. The heads and manifolds can come from an EP of any age, but the later one uses a serpentine belt and an improved water pump assembly (no hoses!!!). If you want to run with an aftermarket EMS they have a wasted spark system on the later EPs, earlier ones got a distributor.

Pretty much all else can come from the earlier engine. The engine dressing is all pretty interchangeable I think. You might need rods for the early engine since they're sharing crankpins.

The issue will be how you want to run the engine. The B280 will have the bosses for the knock sensors but the EP heads don't have a spot for a smart distributor, just the one on the early cars (like the B280s) that just points the spark at the proper hole. The flywheel has no trigger holes so you'll have to do something about getting a crank position signal. In the B280 cam position is picked up by an inductive coil on one of the plug wires - plug fires, computer is sequenced - but unless you're going COP or are trimming spark or fuel for each cylinder, this can be eliminated. The B280 trimmed spark per hole, based on cam position and dual knock sensor information... it was pretty clever for the day.

The trick will be camshafts: they're just not plentiful. B280 cams will work fine in a turbo application, but for naturally aspirated mode they're HORRIBLY weaksauce. I seem to recall I measured something in the area of 192 degrees duration. This engine sounds horrible unless well muffled, but with bigger cams it would sound (and go) lots better. You can spend money on cams for the Delorean, and they're designed for your oddfire crank so you won't have to figure out how to time each bank. No guarantees that they work with the B280 valvetrain, but I don't really see why not. They're a little wilder but still not crazy, enough to wake the motor up I think.

Speaking of valvetrain, the exhaust valves are close enough to B21/23/230 in length and design to accept a 38 or 40mm stainless valve. The intake valves have a slightly longer stem, but you can pick up valves with long stems in Sweden. I think 46mm is the stock size on the intake, 37.5 on the exhaust? Early cars had funny seat angles but the evenfire heads had 45 degree seats. Have fun porting the exhaust - that thing's anyone's guess! I never looked into springs because I wasn't changing my cams, and the few experts out there are all pretty gunshy about seat pressures. The spring pockets and lengths are pretty small so you're fairly limited in what you can do anyway.

Stock up on those M7/M9/M11 fasteners now! I have a bunch of leftovers I could send your way too, if you're serious. You'll also need some way of shimming the cylinders - I can send you my cad file for the lower shims, and you can have them cut anywhere you like as long as they have a laser, thin stock stainless, and do good work. I could maybe get some cut from the place where I had mine done, they worked out well.

I would love to hear an oddfire engine with big cams breathing through headers and triple carbs, or an open element ITB setup. Then again, I would also love to see what could be done with a Garrett GTX.


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:58 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 248
Location: Regina, SK
That was a fantastic wealth of info - thanks Matt!

I'll have to research the wasted spark and the updated heads from the EP - see what I should be looking for.

As for turbo: My brother in VA bought a Borg Warner AirWerks SX250 with the T4 twin scroll housing. EP manifolds will feed each side of the scroll... Low boost on stock bottom end with VEMS stand alone will be the start. Spare engine will get forged bits to support more boost later.

Funny part of all this, is that your PRV build is how I found this forum and the whole reason I signed up to it. :) Lots has happened since then, but sure glad I joined. Great bunch of guys on here!

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:38 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
There are no updated heads for the EP, they just get the euro-like heads throughout the production span, which are "better" than the B280F heads that we got. If all you're after is the heads and exhaust manifolds, any year will do.


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:11 am 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 248
Location: Regina, SK
Sorry - I thought the updated waterpump assembly would have needed different heads to have hoseless connections.

I had no idea wasted spark or the updated waterpump even existed in the later EP PRV's.

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:42 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Yeah, the waterpump housing assembly bolts to the same places the hose connectors (on the return) and the big Y connector (on the block) bolt to. No changes to the head.

Don't forget that with the EP heads you need the EP or B27/B28 timing chain and valve covers, gaskets, etc. B280 stuff won't fit here, except for the driver side valve cover gasket.

Oh, and one thing I forgot about earlier: don't use the EP throttle body. I think the intake manifold is the same, but the TB and elbow are TINY. The Volvo TB is better, but that intake is so long and tuned for low-RPM torque, so if staying naturally aspirated you might do better with a modified B27/B28 manifold. You'll need the injector ports though.


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:26 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 248
Location: Regina, SK
Found a local B28 for $300.

Question now is if the EP 3L pistons and liners would fit. Ive also got a Renault 2.7L PRV with Weber 38 and electronic ignition.

If the 3L pistons work in the B28, and the Renault heads work, it could make for a pretty cool old skool motor for my 76' Peugeot 504. (Original plan was to install lower cases on the Renault and install it as is)

May not be ITB's, but it'd still sound cool.

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:46 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
The barrels will not fit the B28 block, that's why you need the B280 block. That wasn't clear from my earlier post, sorry about that. Sounds like you're on your way to a pretty cool motor. There's no way my headers will fit, huh?


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:10 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 248
Location: Regina, SK
Volvo's PRV placement is way forward of the firewall, in Peugeot's its tucked right up against the firewall. Would need to get cut up and rewelded to make them work.

Crazy locost PRV idea could use them though most likely. :)

I do have to ask why the barrels won't fit the B28 though - both B28 & B280 engines are 2849cc? I thought I had hit on a winning combo!

**Edit - answered my own question. Newer even fire PRV's have an updated block casting. I also have an even fire injected Peugeot PRV, but pretty sure I don't want to mess with it for 150cc.

Contacted my brother - Quite sure he'll want them. :)

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:39 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:43 am
Posts: 248
Location: Regina, SK
Sorry for the hijack - but:

http://seven-604.blogspot.ca/2015/03/pe ... e.html?m=1

Doing something like this should make excellent use of your headers. My buddy has an unfinished locost chassis, all the mold bucks for fibreglass bits, and I have my even-fire engine still waiting for a home - but this is WAY at the bottom of the list. )

Rabin


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 Post subject: Re: a BLOWOUT!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:19 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Bump: some PRV parts spoken for, 740 rad is off the table, all others are still available. Come get sum!


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