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 Post subject: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:58 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Coaldale, AB
The leg is driving me crazy.... The car ran great all summer and fall. Now that the weather turned cold I am having nothing but problems. I have adjusted the carb every which way till sunday and i can get it running well enough to con me into thinking it would be reliable enough to drive and the next time I depend on it to get somewhere, it stalls out and will not start again until i come back to retrieve it later. I thought it might have been an over-fueling problem but I have that thing nearly as lean as i can make it...so that is not the problem.

i recently replaced the flame trap and fat pcv line to the air intake and now I'm not having a condensation issue.

The engine runs like it is firing on 3 cylinders it is rough and vibrates profusely, I can tune the carb to the point that it sounds ok and there is minimal vibration, but the next day I am having the same issues all over agian.

The plugs, cap, and rotor are from when i bought it. I just replaced plug wires and until last fill I have been using mid grade or better. The leg has new to it winter tread and a heater motor waiting to be replaced in it.

Before I invest more money into it, I could really use some help in diagnosing the problem.

I would rather fix it than send it to pyp...!!!!

I should also add that I can visably see that the exhaust is dark colored coming out of the tailpipe.

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1970 Mercedes 220D
1971 Daimler ds420
1977 Mercedes 230
1979 Mercedes 300TD
1993 Honda Del Sol Si
1994 Honda Civic dx hatch
2015 Mazda CX-5
2020 Hyundai Elantra manual
1982 240 DL coupe


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:33 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
What do your plugs look like? I'm guessing one is fouling up or is otherwise spotty, and when you really need it to fire, it's not. I would look there first. You've already replaced my second suspect - those Bougicord-style plug wires will sometimes lose their grip on the threaded stud of the plug and have trouble staying on when they get old.

When you get it running properly, pull the plugs and have a look. Then let it cool down, restart it and get it to misfire, and pull the plugs again. I'll bet one is fouled, or at least wet with fuel. Clean them up, swap the bad plug to another hole, and try again. If it moves with the plug, it's the plug. If not, it's the cylinder. Check the crud on the outside of the plug too - that stuff can be conductive and will draw spark from the plug wires right to the block.

Pull your dizzy cap and have a look inside - if there's a lot of carbon sprayed on the walls in between the terminals, you might have a crossfire issue. When conditions are difficult in the combustion chamber and the plug really needs the juice to light the fire, spark finds an easier way.

I'll bet you've got your carb screwed right up, lean enough to keep the plugs hot & clean on a weak ignition, but then your engine is never tuned right and doesn't behave properly under different conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:58 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Coaldale, AB
The two rear plugs when i took them out a couple days ago after running it were wet, the second from front one was sooty, and the front one was a bit sooty. I have not checked them since changing wires.

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1970 Mercedes 220D
1971 Daimler ds420
1977 Mercedes 230
1979 Mercedes 300TD
1993 Honda Del Sol Si
1994 Honda Civic dx hatch
2015 Mazda CX-5
2020 Hyundai Elantra manual
1982 240 DL coupe


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:58 pm
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Location: Coaldale, AB
point gap is a tad over .4 mm, the rotor and cap look good, no unusual marks/wear/corrosion. The rear plug was wet, the other three sooty. I set the carb back to proper setting, flush with the bridge and 1/2 turn lower. since this morning it will not start.

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1970 Mercedes 220D
1971 Daimler ds420
1977 Mercedes 230
1979 Mercedes 300TD
1993 Honda Del Sol Si
1994 Honda Civic dx hatch
2015 Mazda CX-5
2020 Hyundai Elantra manual
1982 240 DL coupe


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:58 pm
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Location: Coaldale, AB
How do i know if my coil is bad? All my plugs are wet, and the engine nolonger catches, it just turns and turns. OR could it be something else? How long do coils last?

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1970 Mercedes 220D
1971 Daimler ds420
1977 Mercedes 230
1979 Mercedes 300TD
1993 Honda Del Sol Si
1994 Honda Civic dx hatch
2015 Mazda CX-5
2020 Hyundai Elantra manual
1982 240 DL coupe


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:51 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
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Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
You are thoroughly cleaning or replacing the plugs after they come out wet, correct?

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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:48 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Point gap... If you're going to keep points in that thing, get a dwell meter. They come in fairly reasonable auto-based DVOMs (digital volt/ohm meters). The slightest wear on the shaft bushings or points cam lobes will alter the gap/dwell relationship. You'll want to physically check your spark too: clamp a known good spark plug to something handy on the block/head/frame and stick a plug wire on it. The spark should snap and be fat and blue.


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:58 pm
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Location: Coaldale, AB
swedishmeatballrocket wrote:
You are thoroughly cleaning or replacing the plugs after they come out wet, correct?

No, I am drying them off but I have not used a brush or the like to clean them nor do I have spare plugs to replace them.... maybe I have the old ones, ill swap them out and see what happens.

Ugly Duck wrote:
Point gap... auto-based DVOMs (digital volt/ohm meters)... clamp a known good spark plug to something handy on the block/head/frame and stick a plug wire on it. The spark should snap and be fat and blue.


Ill try that when I get home, what does the setting look like? I have a decent($50)I picked up from radioshack before i left there but I no longer have the manual. I didn't even think about checking the spark plug that way. I had a test light that I was looking for yesterday but couldnt find it.

_________________
1970 Mercedes 220D
1971 Daimler ds420
1977 Mercedes 230
1979 Mercedes 300TD
1993 Honda Del Sol Si
1994 Honda Civic dx hatch
2015 Mazda CX-5
2020 Hyundai Elantra manual
1982 240 DL coupe


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:58 pm
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Location: Coaldale, AB
my primary ohm reading was 2.0-2.9 ohms and the secondary reading was 8.2k ohms on the coil. Should it not be higher than that? Also are all bosch style coils the same? I have the one from the mercedes that physically looks the same, could i use that one to test?

_________________
1970 Mercedes 220D
1971 Daimler ds420
1977 Mercedes 230
1979 Mercedes 300TD
1993 Honda Del Sol Si
1994 Honda Civic dx hatch
2015 Mazda CX-5
2020 Hyundai Elantra manual
1982 240 DL coupe


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:51 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
What...an '82 DL still had points? I find that hard to believe...an SU carb - sure thing, but POINTS! Are you sure? I thought everything post 73-74 had the electronic ignition...if I'm on crack - then don't even worry about it, go find a fuel injected car and pull the electronic ignition. Way less hassle.

How are you sure the carb is adjusted properly? Are you lifting the piston just a little and listening for a rise then a fall in RPM? I'd say it's time for a stage 0 on this thing (it will save you wasting booze at any rate). Toss the plugs, wires, cap/rotor, do the vac lines, ditch the belts, check and clean all electrical connections especially the grounds (unscrew them and clean the connections with a little wire brush), new air filter, and run a can of Sea Foam through it. Don't forget to take that carb apart (just unscrew the dashpot and remove the top (assuming SU still) and remove the piston - don't damage the needle. Spray carb cleaner over the unit inside and out. Reassemble the piston once clean and clean out the inside of the dashpot. If that piston gets stuck in cold weather all hell breaks loose and the engine won't run at all. Then once reassembled fill the dashpot with ATF or 4N1 or whatever you use in it for damping.

Then start chasing the problem. Working on these cars reminds me of quantum mechanics. Things sort of look like waves, but sometimes look like particles but are really just probabilities collapsing over various dimension. Once you get the stage 0 done you've collapsed the various probabilities to a known number...if you don't - then it remains a matter of infinities.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:08 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
[JVL]Jeeezuz fawking kee-rist, what are you, an injure-neer or a fawking psycho conservative philosophy physics crap doctor???[/JVL]

I think all B21As had points. My '77 did, at any rate, and I think Mr. Kleen's green whatever it was ('81/'82?) had 'em, before we both switched 'em for B21F ignition.

Seriously, it's time to make your car more pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:32 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:29 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Eating tofu and legumes in my hippie shack
:lol: @ JVL impersonation.

Yup, all b21a's had points, which means up until (and including) '84 the 240 DL had points. There was a brief period '75-'76 in 240 land where everything was electronic, but by '77, the DL's here in Canada were back to carbs and points. GL's kept K-jet and electronic ignition. YROG had points when I first got her, and they made my life hell. Even that brown turd that was advertised on the forum here would have had 'em, which is part of the reason I opted out of that car.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:42 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Ugly Duck wrote:
[JVL]Jeeezuz fawking kee-rist, what are you, an injure-neer or a fawking psycho conservative philosophy physics crap doctor???[/JVL]

I think all B21As had points. My '77 did, at any rate, and I think Mr. Kleen's green whatever it was ('81/'82?) had 'em, before we both switched 'em for B21F ignition.

Seriously, it's time to make your car more pointless.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D> =D> =D>

OMG that was piss my pants funny. Actually he has called me MUCH worse than that (which is a complement of course). I still have to dial into the notion that they still used points that late in the game. I've not seen many B21A's and our family 1976 245 had the B21F. So all the fuel injection cars were electronic ignition and the carbs got points.

Now get to the JY and pull an ignition system that [jvl]fawkin werks[/jvl].

If Unico doesn't know who JVL is...this will make little sense.

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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:14 am 
0-60 in VERY FAST
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:58 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Coaldale, AB
If Unico doesn't know who JVL is...this will make little sense.[/quote]

LoL...I don't, so no it doesn't make any sense.

Theres a FI b21 stting at econo wreakers that I was going to visit for some parts. Do i need the whole distributor or just the parts inside of it?

Replaced the Balast resistor(?), when Pat brought it to my attention as I have never seen it before or even knew they were there. The voltage before the replacement was 5.1-5.2 volts at the coil, after replacement the voltage was 6.6-6.8. Got it going well enough to get it back into its parking spot. So tomorrows chore is to start stage 0.

_________________
1970 Mercedes 220D
1971 Daimler ds420
1977 Mercedes 230
1979 Mercedes 300TD
1993 Honda Del Sol Si
1994 Honda Civic dx hatch
2015 Mazda CX-5
2020 Hyundai Elantra manual
1982 240 DL coupe


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 Post subject: Re: I need help before I become an alcoholic!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:31 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
122_Canuck wrote:
OMG that was piss my pants funny.


The goal was to make you shoot scotch out your nose, but a little pants dribble is perfectly acceptable.


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