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 Post subject: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:58 pm
Posts: 62
I've been thnking seriously of dumping a whole lot of $$$ into my 122.

For those that don't know I bought Stedenkos light blue '67 last October. It's not A+ mint or whatever
(pretty damn close though), I didn't want one of those. I wanted a daily driver, & I mean daily. My 122 is just that. I'm on the road at the moment & she's done amazingly well in the 900km I've driven her, great mileage on the highway & really comfortable at 60-70mph.

I don't know much of the mechanical history of this 122(44 years is a long time!), so this road trip is kind of a (sometimes scary) test. Like I said she's doing really well, but I'm still tempted to upgrade the engine/trans/rearend/suspension/wiring etc etc etc this winter, and I'm looking seriously at VPD for lots of stuff...It adds up pretty quick(I got to over 15k for parts alone!)

I'm wondering if anyone has had any experience with VPD? Anyone order an engine or those Mikuni carbs from them?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:23 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Don't freakin' do it, unless you are okay with waiting 2 years or more to get the parts you pay for up front.

Craig bought a few bits from him and was unimpressed with the quality at any price, let alone what he paid for and for how long it took to get. There are plenty on Turbobricks and Brickboard who haven't gotten their stuff after waaaay too long.

Don't do it.

What exactly are you looking for? We can probably help you out with most of it. The Mikunis are kind of VPD's deal, but the jury is still out on their value in a street car. Craig's got the info on the springs, you'll want IPD for sways, you don't want a header unless you're dropping the SU carbs, and you can make a bunch of power on the SUs - Craig made about 155-165 crank hp with them and the stock exhaust manifold/downpipe. His car scoots.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:21 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:43 am
Posts: 387
Mikuni carbs good on motorbikes on a Volvo not to sure.
Weber would be my choice for major fueling or stay with stock.
What exactly are you looking for performance wise.After 150hp $$$ will insue.
Proper performance and reliabilty are hard to balance.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:46 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1875
Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
Give Craig $15k and he'll build and install a full on race motor overnight! Ok, I exaggerate slightly, but...

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:19 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
Don't go to VPD...seriously. The eye candy on his site is nice. You've already got the info on how long you'll wait, if you get your stuff at all. Have a look through my gallery to see what has been done to my 122. Sit down and have a conversation with Craig, Matt and me about what we've done and plan to do to our 122s. I can't imagine how you'll need more information and/or direction that that...seriously...

Here is the link to my gallery...

http://www.calgaryvolvoclub.com/gallery/v/Pylon/

This documents the first rendition of my car...the way I drove it for 2 years. There may also be some pictures of what I'm in the process of doing now. I don't recall if any of those are here or are on my Photobucket account.

Like Matt says, we can help you with most, if not all, of what you would ever want to do.

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'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:44 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
I have a performance B18 that is sitting on the floor of my garage...specify the cam you'd like and I'll finish if for you. Oh, and it will get done before VPD will respond to your e-mail. Now that I think about it - my relationship with VPD was great until I sent the first cash installment...then I had to wait for 2.5 years and the parts weren't all that great. Do some searching and see what you think.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:58 pm
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What! 2 1/2 years!

Thanks for the heads up.

I'm not sure what to do to her now...
It's hard with her, because she's in such good shape. Any mods at the moment would be replacing stuff that ain't broke. But I don't want to wait until things start failing...

Stuff I would like to do sooner than later:

-Swap the rear end & replace the drums with discs. Thoughts? I'd really like to do this sooner than later as the drums have caused me 6 months of minor irritation. After the brake master cylinder got replaced I could never get the pressure back to up to snuff. The Brakes work well though (I keep doing hard braking tests).

-Swap the tranny, this is a contentious issue for me, she's got a strong M41 at the moment...Sometimes it doesn't disengage but otherwise it's good. I just hate having O/D switch. Much rather a 'real' 5th gear. Not sure what people use, T9's or T5's or something else? I think I'm going to need a new clutch soon anyways.

-Rewire the car. I replaced a bulb in the instrument panel & got a good look at the wiring, everything is working but it's pretty messy (for me anyways).

-Something with the engine & carbs, more power + fix the leaks. I put synthetic oil in her a while back & can now clearly see the gaskets needing replacement.

The radiator is a bit funky. I've got an aux fan & she stays cool with it on (even in 30 degree stop&start city driving) but I'd like to get rid of it(In my book, the less electrics the better). I guess a larger rad? more cores? Again I'm not sure what the best options are.

Maybe what I really need is one of you to have a look at her. Then I can get an idea of what I 'need' versus what I 'want'. She seems to have been restored really well.

Thanks again guys for the VPD advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:58 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
Research, research, research. Check what I've done. Check what Craig has done. Check what a guy named Tracy Conn has done (trconn on TurboBricks). We've all done some silly stuff. Craig's is the most "stock" although he's done an impossible disc brake swap on the rear end and has some silly brakes. As mentioned already, he has a significantly warmed up B20 with stiff suspension. It goes, corners and stops like few 122s I've seen. Tracy's is probably more stock looking but had a B230/T5 transplant. Mine got a little silly with suspension and brakes and now engine. We don't need to look at your car. In fact, most of us have seen your car...back when a guy named Dave Mueller owned it. You need to look at our cars. Go for a ride in Craig's (mine isn't running at the moment). There is a wealth of information available right here on this discussion board but we're not going to feed you with a silver spoon. :wink:

Maybe it's just me but I get this knot in my stomach when someone refers to a 122 as "she". There are lots of "she" cars out there. I don't think the 122 is one. That's just me though... :)

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'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:58 pm
Posts: 62
Huh? So some of you know this 122?

I couldn't decide she or he or it. You're right though Dale, 122's don't seem very 'she'-ish. I've never had a car that wasn't a 'she' though.
I had VW's prior to this...& lots of bad luck, every VW I owned got hit. I couldn't take it anymore & swore off VW's for good. (although I still would like to find a '56-'61 kombi, but the prices are ridiculous)

I don't mean to give you guys the wrong impression, I'm not looking to be spoon fed info or nothing :wink: :wink:
I usually lurk on forums, never posting just digesting infos.

I'll dig around here & turbobricks & see what I come up with.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:23 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
ablahblah wrote:
Huh? So some of you know this 122?



Yes, some of us know that car. Why would that be such a surprise? We've all (well, maybe not ALL...) been know to flag a guy down or leave a note on the windshield of a nice 122. I honestly don't recall how I got acquainted with Dave in the beginning. The seats in your car came from a stash of spare parts I got with a 123GT I bought a few years ago and were light blue originally. Prior to that it had some grey cloth seats from a Honda Prelude or something.

I wasn't trying to be rude with my spoon-fed reference. I was only trying to impress on you that the things you're thinking about doing have been done many times and there is plenty of information available on what was done and how. You need to decide how far you want to go. Once you've seen what can be done and have decided what you want to do, many of us would be happy to sit and discuss how to go about it. In the meantime, we're here to answer whatever questions you may have.

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'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:57 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
ablahblah wrote:
-Swap the rear end & replace the drums with discs.


Since you have a '67 you can swap the later 1800 rear end in, or if you're handy with a welder you can do what has been done a few times and install a 240 rear. If you had a '66 doing something custom would be your only option. Either way you'll need to swap the front hubs to go with the later 5x108 bolt pattern, front brakes need to get swapped too. You could also do something custom with a rear end that has a 5x114.3 bolt pattern (like a late model Ford Explorer or Mustang), which would technically allow you to keep your front brakes but in reality the rear brakes will be far too strong for your stock fronts, and you'll need to upgrade them anyway.

The cheapest option, believe it or not, is to pay the money for the stock stuff. Upgrading will balance money against your willingness to figure stuff out and build stuff on your own. On my 123 I'm looking at using 2nd gen RX-7 front brake rotors and 240 or RX-7 calipers in front, and a set of drums in the rear from either a Jeep or a Ford Ranger, either will work with the stock shoes/parking brake cable, etc. Some work is required for both ends, and I won't be developing "kits" or even a complete working solution until I get the car closer to being on the road, a few years from now. Because I have the tools, I can pull this stuff off for the cost of one stock replacement rear drum, but that won't be the case for everyone.

ablahblah wrote:
-Swap the tranny,


Same deal applies here - your M41 works and if you don't like the paddle you can go with a button and relay such as the later 240/740 style. I've also gone so far as to install a clutch pedal switch which interrupts the relay's ground and kicks the OD out when you give the clutch pedal a stab. Works very nicely and is another safeguard against having OD engaged before you grab reverse, which kills things. Your B18 (or just about any B20) will not harm an M41. Screw on a T-handle with a nitrous/line lock button and wire up the relay with the clutch pedal switch, and you've got a pretty slick solution for rapid engagement/disengagement without having to wave your hands about looking for the paddle.

ablahblah wrote:
-Rewire the car.


That's your deal. Dale is in the middle of installing a "painless style" kit with new fuse box holding modern fuses, tons of circuits, coded wires, etc. A daunting task, probably more so than just cleaning up your wiring harness, and unless you're trying to hide a bunch of things or add other circuits, or upgrade certain circuits, you probably don't need more than stock. The #1 thing I'd do is to defeat the stock unobtanium main fuse with something more modern, preferably an auto-reset circuit breaker.

ablahblah wrote:
-Something with the engine & carbs, more power + fix the leaks.


More power is easy. Craig's got that B18 on his floor, as he said, and I believe he's given the head a once-over. Add your choice of camshaft and it's a solid base for a 50% upgrade to your car. Talk to Rhys about the more modern HIF-6 carbs but be prepared to play with needles to get exactly what you like. For similar money you can probably score a set of DCOE-40s, but your success there is completely up to your willingness to tune. I've owned a Datsun 240z with triple DCOEs and after playing with it some I got it to behave very nicely, cold or warm. Not a winter car, though...

ablahblah wrote:
-The radiator is a bit funky.


Again, your deal. You can get something built by a place like City Wide, if you like. I had them build up the rad for my V8 240 and they installed a 3 row core with 5/8" tubes, and it worked... okay. It kept the car cool enough but I never got to drive it in hot climates before I ditched the project. I prefer a viscous coupled belt-driven fan and I had no room for anything but the slimmest electric fan, and the shroud I built helped out a lot but it still wasn't optimal. Dale's using a retrofitted 740 aluminium rad and Craig's got a full custom jobbie, both work fine but both use electric fans and no belt drive. E-fans always sound to me like they're struggling to cool the engine and are switching on and off all the time to do so, while a belt-drive fan just quietly and constantly goes about it's business. That gives the subliminal impression, to me anyway, that the E-fan equipped car is having "troubles" staying cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:58 pm
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Pylon wrote:
I wasn't trying to be rude with my spoon-fed reference.


No worries, I wasn't offended or anything. I totally know what you mean. On some forums where i've just 'lurked' I sometimes see newbies posting questions & you can tell they've not even taken a gander at previous posts.

Pylon wrote:
Yes, some of us know that car. Why would that be such a surprise?


I guess I'm not used to such a tight knit community of enthusiasts. Like I said I was a VW guy for a long time (back when internets were young) & wasn't a member of any VW clubs or forums. & VW's aren't as nearly as rare as these old Volvos.

It's cool to have such an awesome Volvo community right here in cowtown.

With regard to the brakes...I followed (read & reread) Craigs Willwood upgrade. But I think he mentioned needing larger wheels like 17's to accommodate the larger brakes.

Rewiring is going to be interesting. I really haven't done any research on it at all. Got to do some digging. I remembered when I was about 500km into my journey I'd left my sole replacement 'unobtainium' fuse at home.

I mentioned the radiator only because I met a guy out here in Penticton with a really old ('40's I think) proper mint GMC truck who mentioned having to go up to a 4 core or something. It just got me thinking...what with the aux fan & such. But I have to say, the last few days here in the Okanogan have been +30 degree weather & I've been stop&starting around town without any heat issues.

Craig I'll have to speak with you about the B18 you have when I get back to town, probably in August. In the meantime I'll do some research on cam choices.


Stupid internets out here don't work well, I just lost half my post. ](*,)


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:55 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
I "re-wired" my car when I did the engine swap. I pulled apart the harness and sorted out all the previous repairs. Nothing to it. I've not popped the 25 amp fuse, though the standard method of replacement is to take a standard length 25A fuse and remove the fuse part and kind of fold it over. I've been toying with a later style fuse replacement for years. Too many other projects I guess (Matt's got the best idea with the circuit breaker - though when you pop that fuse, I'd like to know why).

The B18 has a lot of head work (more than Parker does for a grand anyway) and is running stock valves and is otherwise completely rebuilt. The rest of the engine is stock but will be getting tighter squish and as a result more compression (along with fully balancing of the rotating assembly etc). With the right cam it will make 140 hp no problem. The common thought is that you go to B20 or even bore it out to B21 to get more cubic inches...bone stock the P1800 engine is 118 hp (b18B)and there is 30 hp in that head (see thread on it). I've got an R-Sport F cam that is good for north of 180 HP on Webers...I'd don't think it's all that crazy - but I'm happy with where I sit hp wise for now.

M41's can stand a lot of abuse - but I'm not a ham-fisted youngster (anymore) so I don't beat my transmissions 'cause they don't like that. Mine sits happily behind 160 hp and reliably shift into and out of gear with a stock turn signal switch (which I make...no one asks me to make them one - this makes me sad). I like the "paddle" and the 4th gear lock out keeps you from doing silly things like blowing your OD up in reverse. Now the boys in BC (specifically VCBC guys) all seem to like to remove this important safety feature and split all gears as a result. I've driven with 122's with this modification and 2.5 is a nice city gear in a stock car (keeps the revs up) - my answer is to build a car with more power and not worry about shifting like a highway tractor (1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5,4, OD - whew, who needs that, get some power :lol: )

My rad was custom built for about the same money as a new 122 rad (maybe $75 more). It's a 2 core fully furnace brazed aluminum job and according to the guy that made it - could cool about 400 hp. Have a look at most aluminum rads - they are single core and do just fine (they have fewer larger tubes, so a 2 core aluminum is a 4 core copper). He could do another from my drawings.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:24 am 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
If you want a rear-end out of an 1800, I think I know where you can get one.

Enjoy your road-trip, wherever that may be.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on a VPD upgrade?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:38 am 
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Its Art wrote:
Enjoy your road-trip, wherever that may be.


I went west(go figure)! I'm in the Okanogan at the moment. Heading to the Island soon & then maybe down to California.
The Volvo keeps surprising me, & makes me grin =P~

122_Canuck wrote:
M41's can stand a lot of abuse - but I'm not a ham-fisted youngster (anymore) so I don't beat my transmissions 'cause they don't like that. Mine sits happily behind 160 hp and reliably shift into and out of gear with a stock turn signal switch (which I make...no one asks me to make them one - this makes me sad). I like the "paddle" and the 4th gear lock out keeps you from doing silly things like blowing your OD up in reverse. Now the boys in BC (specifically VCBC guys) all seem to like to remove this important safety feature and split all gears as a result. I've driven with 122's with this modification and 2.5 is a nice city gear in a stock car (keeps the revs up) - my answer is to build a car with more power and not worry about shifting like a highway tractor (1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5,4, OD - whew, who needs that, get some power :lol: )


I'm with you on that one. More power for lower revs in the lower gears. & I really appreciate you mentioning the M41 O/D reverse issue...'specially since sometimes it's not disengaging. Could have had a real nasty surprise!

I might ask you to make me one... :D I like the sound of that - O/D on a turn switch. With a new rad + getting rid of the fog lights I could remove the little switch box that sits under the dash.

My buddy out here, who drives a super slow VW van(4 speed, & it doesn't like anything over 100km/h), told me I drive like a grandma...meh...I'm not much into revving the s#$t out of cars. Not one of those 17th ave folk cruising up & down the street trying to get noticed with loud exhausts & such.

I need to do more reading on all of this, but my mind is all over the place at the moment. The other day someone stopped me & we got into a long chat about our disposable consumer society. She used the term 'Built-in Obsolescence". Kinda stuck with me.

Its Art wrote:
If you want a rear-end out of an 1800, I think I know where you can get one.


Definitely interested in a P1800 rear. I'll pm you soon for the details.

I'm going to park it for the winter (without the E-brake engaged! I trashed my brakes last winter when I parked it for a few weeks, drum assembly all frozen up & master cylinder blew a leak) & buy another Volvo for those months (most of the year :( ). Kijiji has a '79 Bertone advertised for $4500. http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1979-Volvo-262c-Bertone-W0QQAdIdZ274690444
I contacted the seller but never got a response. Seems a bit cheap though, the only other Bertone is listed for 15k.

Cheers guys! When I'm back, beers are on me!


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