Change font size
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:56 am


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 14 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:42 pm 
Hello Guys i hope all is well.
I'm planning on doing a motor build for my 84 240 turbo.
I was wondering if you guys could give me some suggestions on what direction i should go with,the two things that i'm going for is 300-400 hp turbo motor coupled with a t5 tranny,and it has to be streetable.
I'm also planning on using a megasquirt system for this motor.
Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanks


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:54 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1875
Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
B234FT
B5234T
Decently built B230FT (300hp can be done on LH 2.4 even)
V8 (no turbo required).
S50B30, or some other non-volvo engine.

All will cost a fair bit of money and work. I know which I'd pick, but everyone has a different opinion, and there's no wrong answer.

_________________
Hi, I drive a fictional star wars character with rear wheel drive. His name is Darth Wagon, he has a shiny helmet.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:03 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
I suspect a B5234 would likely be the most streetable 300+ hp from a Volvo based engine. As Athal said, gonna cost some money though. RSI has pretty much everything you need. Open your chequebook...

_________________
Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:37 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:29 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Eating tofu and legumes in my hippie shack
Hmmm. I've thought about this question a fair bit with having the same longer term power goals for my 245, and in the end my current plan is to stay with a b230ft. The 8 valve is so much simpler, would be easier to build and maintain, and other than paying for proper intake/headers, wouldn't require any additional fabrication. Having seen what a couple of the TB dudes down in the states with RSI heads have done for power, I've started heading more this direction. With a properly built bottom end, and a good ported head, 400hp seems very attainable without obscene boost.

That said, what do you mean by "streetable?" Is it a daily driver? Are you looking to make any low-end power? My end goal for the wagon is to keep it streetable, but I'm not so concerned with having to rev the balls off of it to make any power.

Edit: and Athal...what would you do?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:48 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
My definition of streetable is an engine that runs pump gas, idles, has crisp throttle response, pulls all over the rev range, starts and isn't particularly fussy. You get that out of the box with a whiteblock with modest goals (300 whp) gained by essentially stock set ups.

Your best bet with a redblock is to go with a 16V. I don't mind if people want to spend money on the 8V heads and their development, but you get more flow out of a stock 16V than a pretty well worked over 8V and RSI wants some serious cash these days ($800 for a basic port and polish only!) for their work.

I know what way the 242 is going.

_________________
Coburn Performance - OCD comes naturally.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:00 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1875
Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
I'd keep it simple and stick with a redblock 8V, chipped LH 2.4 and keep it simple and reliable. For 300 CRANK HP that is. Over 300hp, I'd start considering other options.

The main downside of 8V of course, is once you have 300hp and you inevitably want more, things get alot harder. Any of the other motors have alot more upgrade potential down the road.

_________________
Hi, I drive a fictional star wars character with rear wheel drive. His name is Darth Wagon, he has a shiny helmet.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:53 am 
My definition of streetable is the same as you Volvoshredder,I want good bottom end but at the same time i want top end as well,I'm thinking i will go with the b230ft because of it being easy to do the swap.
what car does the b5234 come in?
what car does the b234ft come in?
I have a pretty deep pocketbook for this project ( I'm in the wifes good book right now hehehe :D )
So if any of you guys have part for sale let me know.
WHich one would you pick Athal?


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:27 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
My definition of streetable is that it starts, runs on pump, and is reliable. Beyond that, it's what you'll live with. My definition of DAILY DRIVEABLE is closer to what Craig feels is streetable.

Some questions for you:
- Do you want 300 OR 400 hp? Two different animals.
- Are you willing to sacrifice fuel economy? Bottom end torque?
- Are you wanting a turn-key operation, or will you constantly be tuning & tweaking?
- Do you have a stereo in the car?

An 8v can comfortably do 400 hp. There's nothing wrong with the strength of one, and they can rev. The key is in the engine management and the tune.

The 16v flows a lot better, and will get you to 400 hp without sacrificing as much, or straining as hard. The benefits here are that you won't have to pay as much attention to the motor every time you go into boost, you won't have to squeeze nearly as much boost into it, you won't have the same kind of boost lag, etc.

The 20v is a LOT of work, best left to someone who knows what cars they come in. Sorry, but it's true. If you're just getting into this and don't realize that the B5234FT comes in 850 turbos, you probably won't know the nuances & mods that are required to get it into a RWD application, and you'll forever be asking questions & paying people to fabricate custom bits for you. I don't say this to be mean, it's just the truth. Same sort of thing can be said for the 16v - they don't come in FT flavour, and you've got to BUILD one... you can't just buy one.

So my bet for you would be a good strong 8V. You're going to need a lot of turbo, you're going to need a header, you're going to need a good intercooler, you're going to need to pay attention to flow, you're going to need to feed it a LOT of 94 octane, and you're going to need to tune it to within an inch of it's life. Whenever you start beating on it you're going to have to turn down the music and pay attention to the car. You MAY want to get into cylinder head mods and swapping camshafts, and at the 400 hp mark a custom intake manifold is supposedly good for some power, but I wouldn't start out with such lofty goals just yet. Get an 8V in your car, turbo'd and running, and start learning how to tune.

I have a built 8V that I'm not using, and don't really plan on using. It's got a high compression bottom end and I have a matching big valve cylinder head for it. It runs pretty sweet, but I'm not letting it go for junkyard prices. It's strong enough to make the kind of power you're looking for, but the compression ratio was designed for natural gas, not gasoline, and you may run into a limit sooner than if you started with a B230FT. You can ask for more details if you like, and I'm not shy about discussing it online if you're interested in buying, as all these other guys know exactly what I have invested in it.

The other consideration is this: If 300 hp will satisfy your normal urges, and you just want 400 to play with once in a while, you can always invest in some race gas & blend a tank every once in a while. Keep in mind that a lot of the guys making hero numbers on Tbrix are most likely doing it with E85 fuel, which we don't get in Alberta.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:03 pm 
well to start off i would be happy with 300hp,i want to run pump gas and i don't want to be tuning it everyday.
I do have a b21ft in my car right now.
What kind of mods do you recommend to get to that 300hp with this motor.
How much do you want for your motor?
what kind of mods do you have done to this motor and how many km?
Sorry for all the question but i'm kind of a dummy when it comes to motors


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:47 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Okay, so now we're getting somewhere.

Your B21FT is a good strong motor. Depending on how many KMs it's got, it could have lots of life left in it. Athal and I both had B21FTs that plumb wore out, though, long before they stopped making power. It's a funny thing - we were both changing oil every 3-5 days because it was getting diluted with gasoline, blowby from worn out rings, but neither car burned a drop of oil.

The B21FT has the luxury of having really thick cylinder walls, tough pistons, and low compression. On the other hand, it's missing 200 ccs from the B23 and B230 turbo engines, and the lower compression hurts both fuel economy and throttle response. The low compression allows you to run MASSIVE boost safely, though!

I have personally installed Megasquirt and tuned up a B21FT in a rally car and was pretty happy with the results. It had a stock bottom end but I don't remember the cylinder head it had (not really that important), it had an IPD Turbo cam (same as an Enem V15 Turbo) and it had a 90+ exhaust manifold with a built TD05-15G turbo. The engine ran happily on 94 octane at 18-20 psi of boost and it was massively responsive. Being that it was in a rally car, it was built to be responsive, otherwise it would have had a larger turbo and would have made much more power. In my opinion, it SHOULD have had a larger turbo - the response wouldn't have been hurt much and it would have made a ton more power, and been more controllable in the gravel. Anyway, the power difference before and after the installation of Megasquirt (and a cheapo eBay intercooler) was night and day.

We'll ignore my engine for now and I would suggest you see how far you get with your own first. Get your T5 installed with a strong clutch, I've got a driveshaft for your car ($200, ready to go, from my V8/T5 244), and make sure your fuel pumps and ignition system are in good shape. Get a 3" downpipe and a minimum 2.5" exhaust with free flowing mufflers. Get a decent wideband O2 sensor system for tuning. Make some "detcans" (search Tbrix for these - very simple, some cheapo earmuffs, some surgical tubing, and a squashed piece of copper tube that gets bolted to the block. These allow you to listen for ping or knock, to hone your ignition tuning skills). Play with all this junk on your current engine, mess around with the boost and ignition, and get to know what feels good and what feels bad.

First modification after the exhaust system would be, for me, the Megasquirt. Any aftermarket EMS will be essential for 300+ hp on your engine. You will screw up your tuning several times learning how to tune and learning the sins. We can start another discussion when you like - maybe another thread. Anyway, don't be afraid of throwing your tunes out because you're going to be retuning just about from scratch every time you change anything, and if you're like me even when you DON'T change something. I promise you that you'll want to keep a laptop handy, just about 100% of the time, and you'll monkey with it constantly. There are several threads on Tbrix on what parts to buy, what version of Megasquirt to get, and how to do the install, so I won't go into it here. What I will point out are the differences in intake manifolds: The EFI intake manifolds are good and simple, but are a little restrictive at the power levels you're looking to reach. The B21F/B23E intake manifolds are much better, but do not have injector holes. You, however, have a K-jet head and the K-jet holes & EFI injectors/fuel rail can be made to work together. Your call.

An option you may investigate is to install LH 2.2 or LH 2.4 on your B21FT. This can and has been done to great success, and there has been a lot of success in tuning up the LH 2.4 to allow massive injectors and big boost, as well as raising the RPM limit to some degree. This is much less well documented and much more experimental than Megasquirt is, and the results may or may not be satisfactory. The advantage is that you'll be dealing with factory stuff, but the factory stuff uses hardware that's vastly inferior to the Megasquirt - much slower processor and with much less memory. You may find it to be less sensitive to atmospheric changes, being that it's MAF based and not Speed Density like Megasquirt, so the tune might be more stable but won't be as sharp as a well tuned SD system.

Once you've got your spark and fuel tuning chops, THEN I would say it's time to start thinking about the turbo and exhaust manifold. A good start would be a 90+ Volvo turbo exhaust manifold, AS LONG as you open it up to match the inlet of a Garrett turbo. Junkyard turbos are getting scarce in decent shape, and are even tougher to find in the larger sizes. You'll pay someone just about as much for one as you will a good rebuilt one from somewhere like Cherry Turbo or Alamo. Personally I wouldn't bother with either anymore - they're better than what you've got by a long shot, but not as good as you can get if you're willing to spend some money. Instead I'd look at spending the money on an RSI header and a proper, state-of-the-art turbo like a Garrett GT series. Talk to a turbo guy for this. I think the headers are north of $600 and the turbo will set you back double that, plus plumbing and a different downpipe, but you'll be happy you did. This will be complete overkill unless you start moving on the next few modifications quickly.

Another option for the turbo is the ubiquitous Holset HY35W or HE351W. These come on later Dodge Cummins diesels and are designed with a 5.9 litre inline 6 oil burner in mind. They can and do work on a Volvo 8v, but you're probably going to need an external wastegate so consider this in your costs and in your header selection.

Get a different intercooler, for sure. One with proper end tank design is the goal - those eBay ones aren't very good. Unless you're able to get one from an Isuzu NPR delivery truck, or secondarily one from a Nissan UD, you're going to be spending some money getting one built. Maybe RSI has developed one by now, I'm not sure. The Powerstroke fits... IF you cut your frame rails and disable your bumper shocks, AND go with a flathood and single round headlight conversion. Not my idea of a good idea, but it's been done very effectively. It is possible to shorten a Powerstoke intercooler but you'll be spending plenty of money on a not ideal solution. Look around at what the big boys on Tbrix are running, and ask some questions.

You can definitely do better with the cylinder head. The 530 from a B230 is a good choice as long as you're using the EFI intake manifold to match. This head is tougher than the one you've got, but doesn't flow as well as the 405 which doesn't REALLY fit your engine, even though lots of us have installed one. Get a good 3 angle valve grind and get the valves back cut. Some light porting in the exhaust bowls is helpful, but these heads don't flow very well without major work, and even then I'm not sure how well they can flow. As far as a camshaft? The T cam is just fine as long as you get the rest of the engine flowing. You can do better, obviously, but the B21FT and it's low compression ratio doesn't lend itself to radical cams. The IPD/Enem turbo cam is a good choice if you want to rev above 6000 RPM, or you can go even further if you're confident in your engine's health and your valve spring strength. There are many other choices, but I wouldn't worry too much about the camshaft if I were you.

There you go. Recipe for 300+ horsepower. Now go do it. It's not difficult, but what most people stumble on is scraping the cash together for the essentials. Getting your engine to 200 hp costs about 50 bucks. Getting it to a reliable and safe 300 hp costs considerably more, and it's helpful if you're handy with a TIG welder and can scratch together junkyard parts or are willing to experiment. Getting it to 400 costs more than 300, plus you're now breaking lots of other stuff like transmissions & clutches & rear ends, the bulletproofing of which costs more money.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:40 am 
Thank you ugly duck for all the info,i will keep you informed on what i do


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:57 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
NP. If you want to talk some more or come over one day to chat & look at some fun pieces, let me know.

Edit - and I expect you to ask lots of questions, so don't feel self-conscious about that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:02 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1875
Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
I may have an NPR intercooler just sitting on the bench in my garage...ok, I do.

_________________
Hi, I drive a fictional star wars character with rear wheel drive. His name is Darth Wagon, he has a shiny helmet.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 300-400hp volvo motor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:52 am 
how much for the cooler


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 14 posts ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net