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 Post subject: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Hey guys and gals! Trying to get my brothers volvo running!

So far I have figured the cuprit is the fuel pump relay. I don't know much about volvo wiring, I am a vw guy myself but I'm trying to learn.

It seems at first the was no spark at all from the coil. It showed 12ish volts on the positive side but no spark. From the plugs or main wire. I threw in a coil from my bus. Got spark! It was oh so magical, we tried it agin but no start. It kinda caught a few times but then nothing. We tried a few minutes later, still nothing.

Tested the spark after and it appeared to be more intermittent and weaker than before.

Fuel dumps out of the fuel rail line connection when cranked.

So I am at my wits end.

I'm thinking:
- bad fuel pump relay
- clogged cat

If anyone has a spare fuel pump relay I could test with I would be more than happy to borrow it as I am too broke to buy one and all the junk yard have nothing at the moment...

Any input or comments are greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Mikey.

TIA.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:49 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
If fuel is coming out of the rail when you're cranking I don't see how the relay could be at fault. The fuel pump would seem to be working. My guess is weak spark. Have you pulled a plug out to see if it's wet with fuel? Poor grounds. Find all the grounds in the engine bay, pull them and clean everything up. Make sure you have a good connection at the coil too. Do this and report back. Don't do a bunch of things at once or you'll never know what the cause of the problem was...

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'67 123GT
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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:50 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
There are two fuel pumps remember, and the relay controls them both separately. The main could be cooked but the in-tank could still push some through. Not at more than 2 or 3 psi, mind... which hose are you pulling - the return off the regulator or the high pressure? Flow from the reg means fuel pumps are operational, overcoming 35psi with ease. This means relay is fine.

Def. could be grounds as Dale says. There's lots of them... check the plugs for sure. The timing belt is good, right? Have you thrown a timing light on it? The crank pulleys on the '85+ cars are 2 piece and can spin, throwing off your timing reading, so if you've tried to set it you could be chasing your tail.

You mentioned in your PM that it's a 245, and that you've got a fuel rail so it's post-'83, but we don't know if it's LH2.0, 2.2, OR 3.1. They all have different ignitors and components that don't necessarily work together.

If you've now got hot spark and you've got pressurized fuel and it still won't run, you're likely flooded or mistimed.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:09 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
Ugly Duck wrote:
You mentioned in your PM that it's a 245, and that you've got a fuel rail so it's post-'83, but we don't know if it's LH2.0, 2.2, OR 3.1.


Thread title says '86...should be 2.2, no?

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'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:25 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Location: Calgary, Ab
Um, yeah... I just noticed that. Oops.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:15 pm 
I like cake

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:23 pm
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It's a 2.2 or 2.3. I'm not sure how to tell. My brother says its a "red-block" whatever that could mean.

All the wiring is in a tight look and looks untampered with except this red wire from the battery with a fuse. I think it's for the fuel pump relay because when I pull it the relay clicks. It looks really haggard but the connection seems tight.

Some more symptoms. My brother was driving this volvo daily and before we ha to garage it. he had an intermittent no start issue which kept getting worse and worse until the car became undrivable. It didn't seem to be tempatature related, and there wasn't much pattern to it, the car would just die when we were driving , we'd pull over and start it back up.

We never messed with timing so I think I can rule that out.

I don't have any way to measure fuel pressure, I took the feed line that connect to the top of the black plasticky looking fuel rail.

Any thoughts on the fuel pump relay?


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:51 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
The fuel pump relay is by the driver's knee so I'm pretty sure that's not what you're hearing click...

Grounds. Do it...and report back when you have. Some of us have gone through this before... :wink:

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:56 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
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Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
Google Volvo 700 FAQ. Lots of good info on the fuel systems.

Sounds like a bad ecu to me

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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:48 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
swedishmeatball wrote:
Google Volvo 700 FAQ. Lots of good info on the fuel systems.

Sounds like a bad ecu to me


Just askin'...how many bad ECUs have you found?

Could be Hall sensor. Could be any number of things, but looking after the basics before starting to replace things seems like the most logical approach. How many bits and pieces did I replace on my 744 before I finally cleaned the grounds? Woulda' saved me a couple hundred $ had I cleaned the grounds up first...

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:48 pm 
I like cake

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:23 pm
Posts: 4
No it for sure the fuel pump relay clicking. I found it behind the glovebox and physically felt it click. ( the only way to know for sure) ill check the grounds tomorrow.

Anybody know stock grounding locations.

Thanks for the resource I'll make sure to read up!


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:21 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
I've never owned an LH2.2 240, but the K-jet cars' fuel pump relays were down by the driver's side crotch cooler. Near the glovebox were the power window relays and overdrive relay.

The 700-series cars have a "radio suppression relay" in the engine compartment, which frequently fails while appearing to work and leaves a driver stranded for a while. I wonder if the 240 has something similar under the dash, that works when cold but fails when heated up, and gets progressively worse. Pretty classic relay failure behavior...

Can you get a picture of the relay you've found? Dale can maybe corroborate as he's got an '87 244.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:37 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1875
Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
Pylon wrote:
swedishmeatball wrote:
Google Volvo 700 FAQ. Lots of good info on the fuel systems.

Sounds like a bad ecu to me


Just askin'...how many bad ECUs have you found?

Could be Hall sensor.

Just one:P

Go thru the FAQ test and check list. I think hall sensor would be a more consistent issue. Relay would be more temperature sensitive. Bad ecu is more random, sort of as he's describing.

They could all be an issue though, and especially the wiring harness if it hasn't been replaced/upgraded.

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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:09 pm 
I like cake

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:23 pm
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Here's a pic of the relay I pulled!

It was behind the glovebox!


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with a no start issue 86' 245.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:33 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Bahahahaha, doesn't come much clearer than that! That's definitely not the stock part, though...


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