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 Post subject: brain strain, locked 4wd: dynamics & antilock brake function
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:15 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 211
Location: edm
If I understand what happens with a locked off-road type 4wd system like in my Sidekick LWB:

- the front two wheels can turn different speeds from each other
- ditto the rears (no limited slip yet)

but, the *sum* of the front pair must match the sum of the rear pair.

thus-

A, it serves as a type of ABS by preventing single-wheel lock. True?

B, is there anything obvious that can be down to reduce the understeer, especially power understeer, eg rear LSD (clutch type)?, even front LSD? I have not found that left foot braking can be instinctive enough- or frankly, immediate or predictable enough with auto trans and its kickdown logic... and it's something I'm curious if it could be changed. What about changing out the transfer case from an off road locked typed to a viscous type [viscous type is 50/50 only, not 38/62, unfortunately]?

I am feeling that it may be endemic to the 4 wheel locked, to lose traction on the outside front wheel as it is dealing with cornering loads while trying to allow slip as needed which is not allowed by lack of a front to rear differential.

Toe out and tricks like that are not so welcome in a Daily Driver winter vehicle where lane change stability over snow ridges is very welcome.

I am currently thinking of a very subtlely softer lower rear spring (subtlely bias to more understeer) and adding a rear sway bar where there is none now (considerable bias to more oversteer), but again not sure if that might make it too tail happy.
That's plan A, but I wondered if some old school version of BMW et al's Torque Vectoring could be established via the driveline.
Note to self, what does Ken Block do? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: brain strain, locked 4wd: dynamics & antilock brake function
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:01 pm
Posts: 2005
Location: Always in front of a computer or behind a wheel
Stop making tight turns in 4wd?

Also, oversteer = throttle and 'throwing' momentum around.

If your center diff wasn't locked, you'd like your vehicle more.

I don't see what you mean by anti lock braking from the center diff.

You can always weld your rear differential, then you can induce oversteer with the right foot almost every time, but since this is a daily driver, i presume you wouldn't want to do something that manly ;)


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 Post subject: Re: brain strain, locked 4wd: dynamics & antilock brake function
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:27 pm 
Somehow completely sideways in 4th

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 211
Location: edm
RaZ wrote:
Stop making tight turns in 4wd?


but darnit, that's what I *bought* this dang thing for! [a bit faster with a bit less inherent risk driving to work, and on errands over winter]

Also, oversteer = throttle and 'throwing' momentum around.

Quote:
If your center diff wasn't locked, you'd like your vehicle more.


You figure a 50/50 viscous might make a nice driver?

Quote:
I don't see what you mean by anti lock braking from the center diff.


Well, if the one wheel at the front locks, but the total combined wheel speed of the front two has to be the same as the back two, doesn't that affect the non-locked wheel? I'm just asking, I really don't understand.

Quote:
You can always weld your rear differential, then you can induce oversteer with the right foot almost every time, but since this is a daily driver, i presume you wouldn't want to do something that manly ;)


Except right up until the point the tires spin, it willl be a power-understeering pig set up like that. Besides, ninety-seven (97) cubes inches here Raz... ;) Factory 5.13 gears give an illusion of torque, but...

BTW, did you know it uses a AW71 from the factory? They call it a A44DE, but it's a Aw71 internally.


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 Post subject: Re: brain strain, locked 4wd: dynamics & antilock brake function
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:01 pm
Posts: 2005
Location: Always in front of a computer or behind a wheel
Alot of the asen-warner trannies are identical on the inside with different rebrandings, i see it all over.

a viscous coupler would be a lot less retarded feeling than a straight permanently locked coupler, afaik :)


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