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 Post subject: Re: Warm running 240
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:13 pm 
First volvo in outer space
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So I went through all of the possible issues discussed above and could not find anything out of the ordinary.

Decided to get a can of 10 minute flush which I did sans thermostat, drained, and refilled with water twice until the water looked clean enough to dump. Refilled with water, opened the block drain full open and stuck the hose in the overflow and set the rate so it was about the same as the block drain. Started the engine and let it go for a good 20 minutes, the water was basically clear from the start. Filled with distilled water and ran for 10 minutes and then drained that as well, this cooling system is CLEAN. Drained all of the distilled water and re-installed the T'stat. Filled with new green stuff until it was leveled out.

Took it out for a spin, annnnnd, same GD thing. Earlier while I was working in the driveway my 78 year old neighbor Otto stopped by and we got to talking about my issues. Right away he said take out the thermostat and try it, he's had numerous bad T'stats over the years. I didn't because I wanted to see if the flushing had done anything and didn't want to make too many changes...

So today I pulled the T'stat (the second brand new Walher) and went for a drive.... Perfect!!! Pulling the westside hill, or driving 120 km/h, the gauge was a needle width above 9:00, the rest of the time it was dead level or running below level.

I have an ipd order on the way for some other stuff so I had added another T'stat just in case. I guess I'll try that and see if I can get one that actually works! Thanks for all of the feedback, stay tuned for my High Idle 240 thread. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Warm running 240
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:03 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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I always found the ~92 degree tstat made my old 240 run on the warmer side- why not go with an 87 anyway?

I'm sure Matt or one of the smart guys will correct me, but I think maybe you still have a barely working rad. With no thermostat, the engine could (and probably should) actually run quite cool- well below mid-way on the gauge. A fully open thermostat will never flow as much as NO thermostat, so if it's still getting above 9 oclock, or right around there without any cooling system restrictions...putting in even a properly working thermostat will slow the coolant down and the temps will go up.

There's a limit, of course, which may or may not apply here- the coolant still needs time to absorb and shed heat, so too MUCH flow could lead to reduced performance. I found this out with the BMW oil system- oil temps would actually DROP by using thicker oil, because it flowed slower and allowed more heat transfer than lower weight. Again, this may be a moo point (something a cow would say) for the Volvo cooling system.

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 Post subject: Re: Warm running 240
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:31 pm 
First volvo in outer space
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swedishmeatball wrote:
I always found the ~92 degree tstat made my old 240 run on the warmer side- why not go with an 87 anyway?


I was led to believe that in a colder climate a 92 was preferred? That being said, with a 240's heater you're probably right, but then why do they stock a 92?

swedishmeatball wrote:
I'm sure Matt or one of the smart guys will correct me, but I think maybe you still have a barely working rad. With no thermostat, the engine could (and probably should) actually run quite cool- well below mid-way on the gauge. A fully open thermostat will never flow as much as NO thermostat, so if it's still getting above 9 oclock, or right around there without any cooling system restrictions...putting in even a properly working thermostat will slow the coolant down and the temps will go up.


Now that you mention this I was thinking the same thing after I got back from my roadtest, never having tried this before I dismissed it, but what you're saying makes perfect sense. I may need to have the rad looked at after all.

swedishmeatball wrote:
There's a limit, of course, which may or may not apply here- the coolant still needs time to absorb and shed heat, so too MUCH flow could lead to reduced performance. I found this out with the BMW oil system- oil temps would actually DROP by using thicker oil, because it flowed slower and allowed more heat transfer than lower weight. Again, this may be a moo point (something a cow would say) for the Volvo cooling system.


This makes sense as well, the rad has less contact time to do it's thing as it's over-circulating? Also, wouldn't the backpressure held back by the T'stat raise the boiling point of the coolant? Maybe someone with a better grasp of Thermodynamics can wade in to that one. Lastly, it's a Volvo so consulting a cow would be a waste of time, a Moose however...

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 Post subject: Re: Warm running 240
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:47 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Does the burgundy 245 at the PYP have a rad? If it does, I'd pull it as your tour without the t-stat should have barely got the thermometer off the floor (if everything else is working). You mentioned you changed the pressure cap. Is it the same KPA? I'm assuming that the hoses feel fine and are not degraded. Does your cap hold pressure? Did you boil that t-stat? There are a few things to check, but Don's Rad could check it out pretty easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Warm running 240
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:11 pm 
First volvo in outer space
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122_Canuck wrote:
Does the burgundy 245 at the PYP have a rad? If it does, I'd pull it as your tour without the t-stat should have barely got the thermometer off the floor (if everything else is working). You mentioned you changed the pressure cap. Is it the same KPA? I'm assuming that the hoses feel fine and are not degraded. Does your cap hold pressure? Did you boil that t-stat? There are a few things to check, but Don's Rad could check it out pretty easily.


Hmm, haven't been out to PnP in eons, might have to go look. Thanks for confirming what Athal was thinking, in hindsight I should have come to this conclusion, first time for everything I guess.

Pretty sure I had the Black cap for awhile as it was of the early changes I made from a Green one I believe. I changed hoses last year when i did the WP. As far as I know the cap holds pressure. No I never boiled the T'stat, I had heard of doing that just never did it, lesson learned...

From what yourself and Athal have said, as well as some googling I did tonight, looks like a trip to Don's is in the cards tomorrow. Also, any thoughts on the temperature of the T'stat you use?

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 Post subject: Re: Warm running 240
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:51 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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I use the 87°C and it sits right in the middle of the gauge. I replaced the rad with an aluminum one from a later car and have the correct black pressure cap (I've got a spare if you need it). I also boil my t-stats with a thermometer to confirm that they are working.

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 Post subject: Re: Warm running 240
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:10 pm 
First volvo in outer space
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:46 pm
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Location: East L.A.
122_Canuck wrote:
I use the 87°C and it sits right in the middle of the gauge. I replaced the rad with an aluminum one from a later car and have the correct black pressure cap (I've got a spare if you need it). I also boil my t-stats with a thermometer to confirm that they are working.


Just got back from Don's with a new radiator installed. The old one was cold on the bottom and hot on top, the top nipple broke off in the hose when they pulled it off so we were on borrowed time. I boiled my T'stat before taking the car in and it opened OK so we stuck it in.

Took it out up the westside hill afterwards with the pedal to the floor, which of course almost keeps you at the speed limit in a NA 240 :lol: , and it stayed dead level all of the way. My next parts order I'll get an 87 C thermostat and a new Black cap.

Thanks again for all of the feedback, learned a few more things and a new rad wasn't too bad so it's all good. :mrgreen:

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66 122S (Garage Queen)
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78 242GT (Project... LOL)
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