Two brand spankin' new knock sensors are probably keeping whatever pinging there would be at bay. I don't know if the EZ116K tricks work on the 115, but I might do a little research there.

For interest's sake, and because I forgot if I'd mentioned it: apparently this system has the ability to adjust each cylinder individually, due to the super-expensive #1 spark plug wire that has a sensor to tell the ICU when it's firing, and to reset/confirm the cam position. I don't believe 116 can do this, since there is no reference to cam position or distributor position on the 4 bangers.

And now that we're talking about fuel, I'm not really sure what fuel is in there. It's got a bit of whatever was in there last summer (most likely Husky 90 "regular") and whatever I drained out of Ray's 1800ES when I did the fuel tank work. All in all, it's probably pretty old.

I should really do a little test on 91 octane. With the Husky across the street I primarily ran it on 90 since I got it, and have never noticed a difference when I ran it on anyone else's fuel, so it's quite likely there isn't enough advance to take advantage of anything more than 87.

Well, made it to Lethbridge and back, the worst mechanical trouble I had was a hood that constantly popped up on the highway. Adjusted it again, hopefully that's stopped. Minor rattles from the interior, thankful that I'd gotten the cruise working and I'm hopeful that I can get the A/C working soon, just to help keep the noise down on the highway. With the windows closed the exhaust noise isn't terrible, but the car kind of gets old fairly quickly. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about this. I suppose I'll try a new rear muffler first, but so much noise comes from what SEEMS to be the front of the car, I'm suspicious about it being header noise and therefore, I'll never get rid of it.

Oh well, time to drive it and enjoy it for a while, and forget about working on it. After the A/C and some wet sand/polish (thanks again Craig for the lesson this weekend), the next step is the M46 (or a nice M47 if I can find one, just to be different) and 3.31/locker. I've got a pair of spare camshafts that I may send away to be reground and enhanced, which will require engine removal to swap out, so that'd wait 'till next winter too. More rumpity-rump and a bit more power up top would be nice and would go well with a set of manual cogs.

Would wrapping the headers help at all?

Notice any improvement in economy?

The answer to both questions is "don't know".

Wrapping the headers may limit sound transmission, muffling them slightly. But it might also overheat them. I don't trust header wrap, really.

I haven't filled the car up since returning, but I never really had many highway miles on the car before that so I don't have much to go by. Plus, I sort of loaned the car to Greg for a while this time, and instructed him to have fun. Mileage might have suffered slightly as a result...

One thing that might be harming both mileage and quietness are these band clamps holding the exhaust together: I'm not sure I trust the seal on these butt-connector things all that well. I went for the straight 2" OD - 2" OD connectors, and there's a slight gap between the header and the exhaust that might be leaking through this style of band clamp. This might be drawing in some extra oxygen, screwing up the O2 sensor reading and faking a lean signal, plus leaking out some exhaust noise. I'm not sure how to fix this unless I use some super-high temp sealant in that area, between where the two ends of the band come together and the pipes.

I had such a hoot!! Above 4 grand, I really enjoyed the sound of this car, and it was great to drive a 780 for the first time. Thanks again Matt!

You used the wide band clamp right? I've had no problems with mine after 6000 miles and check it often. Not a leak in sight - there is some goo that is used at the join (came with mine). I think the note is a combination of the back muffler and the headers. Did you put a resonator up stream somewhere? If not, a set of 4" stainless resonators would calm it down a lot. Oh, and don't wrap the headers - no need with the ceramic coating and that stuff is only good for causing problems from what I've read (awesome for TIG welding protection though).

I used the wide band clamp (??? there's a narrow one ???) but it came with no goo. The 3" one that I didn't use has some goo that I might pirate if I feel there's a leak there.



I did have another look at some pictures and am now partly convinced that the header tubes are rattling together just as they enter the collector. It might only be happening on the one side. I'll wrap them with a large hose clamp to see if it changes the rapping sound, and if so I guess I'm grinding off some of the ceramic coating and welding a reinforcing band around the primaries. Live and learn.

No time in the next few days but I'm anxious to try the hose clamp to see what happens.

Well I never tried the clamp thing because I had a look and can't see any marks from rattling tubes. I did swap the rear muffler with a Dynomax oval and an S-bend tailpipe, and it's quieter and less ricey but it still rasps at the same RPM range. I also pirated some of that goo from the other band clamp and sealed up the two 2" clamps because I could see some black marks from exhaust leakage.

I have been chasing down a knock sensor issue and I'm hopeful that I have it licked now. It may have turned out to be a bad connection at the bulkhead connector, and if I don't get another error code in the next few days I'll probably pull them all apart and hit them with some electrical contact cleaner and call it good. It would run okay for a while and then it would feel like the timing was being pulled like cray-zay until I shut it off again and restarted. It seemed to be worse with heat but that doesn't make a ton of sense.

I've got a spare ICU and a spare ECU, and upon internal inspection it seems that they're both chippable. Just my luck. Now I get to torture myself with the Tunerpro/Ostrich idea, ripping and burning new chips, possibly extending maps and certainly altering injector sizes for boost, etc. I should test them first to make sure they work...

Happy Halloween, nearly.

It's been a while since I've done any updates, but it's been a while since I've done anything either. The car's been pretty solid, with some minor niggles that I've dealt with. There were some minor electrical bothers that had me chasing things around, but it seems to have been sorted now. I also had some HVAC troubles that ended up being a bad solder on the controller circuit board, an easy fix once I found it. I did end up trying a hose clamp on one pair of header tubes and it looks like they've been bouncing off one another after all, because noise from directly in front of me has diminished. I've got more investigation ahead of me, because obviously I overestimated the rigidity of these headers. They might need some bracing & banding after all. I've also swapped out the rear muffler with a Dynomax oval and an S-shaped tailpipe similar to the picture I posted of my 745. That cut the rasp and ring from the exhaust a lot. I've still got a resonance between 2300 and 2800 RPM, which is right in the 110 kph cruising zone, but it's much better than it was.

Overall I've been pretty happy with the car and that's great since I've been so busy on the kitchen & back yard, because I haven't had time to deal with problems. I have been making a list of things to do, though, and the list is way longer than the amount of time I have to invest on the car. I'm also not sure of the direction I want to go.

First of all, trouble roundup: I have a leaky diff. I need to replace the pinion seal and probably the side shaft seals. I have the diff out of Dale's 960 (a 3.31:1 with locker) but in order to install it I need to swap the front hubs to the later, 48 tooth ABS hubs, possibly swap the front ABS sensors, and swap the speedometer converter to one matching the 48 tooth tone ring in the later diff. If I don't want to swap ratios for the 3.73 that's in the car, I'd also need to swap transmissions for one with a different overdrive ratio, i.e., an M46 or my modded T5. Either one will require a clutch, flywheel mods, and a driveshaft, and the T5 will require some major shifter linkage design. See how this snowballs?

I was thinking that swapping to a manual transmission will allow me to avoid the resonance in the headers a bit easier than the automatic does, and it'll make the car a bunch more fun in the meantime. If I end up keeping it an automatic, I'll be damn tempted to ditch the headers and put in those EP manifolds. Whatever I do, I'll pull the headers and brace them up to keep the tubes from rattling around, and hopefully that'll get rid of the noise whichever way I go.

I still haven't done any wet sanding or polishing of the car, which I want to do before I replace the badges. I also want to get the air conditioning working, which will involve a flush & cleanout, a compressor mount and some way of tensioning the belts, some mineral oil, and a vacuum pull before a refill. There is a wicked vibration in the rear end above 120 kph too, I think it's these crap tires which were unevenly worn and had a compromised bead on one of them - no leaks, though. The front is solid so I may just replace the rear pair.

That'll probably be enough for this winter. None of this will happen until I get a large pile of work done in the garage, clearing out old junk and some new projects. Stay tuned, but don't hold your breath.

How about a show n tell!? Anyone up for brunch tomorrow?

The result of more soul-searching brings us to the current state: I'll basically do whatever I need to do to make the car as civilized as I can bear, stick a For Sale sign in the window, and hold on until I get the $$$ that I'm looking for.

The headers are out, manifolds have been ported & painted and will be baked tonight. Downpipe material has been purchased and the car is getting quietified. Once I actually get to ride in Dale's or Athal's cars to see how those Sachs Turbo Gas struts work out, I may decide to switch to them to help make the ride more bearable. Air conditioning, fix a leaky diff, replace the rear tires (or even all four) and deal with a couple other little issues, and it's on the block. I need to simplify my life and get started on the GT.

I'm so full of fail right now that it actually hurts just behind my scrotum.

Sorry to hear the Bertone has got you so down, I would love to buy it but am seriously contemplating heading in the other direction as well...

It's not really a "down" thing, Jim. I've had a difficult time trying to figure out what the car wants to "be" and how closely that aligns to what I can live with. The headers were fun to make but I am seriously unimpressed with how much noise they make, and they didn't seem to make THAT much more power that I should invest a bunch more time into them. Then again, once I get the manifolds in I might be surprised by a big drop in power, but I've decided to focus on what I DO have a vision for: the 123.

If you read through this whole thread you can see I've gone about 100 directions in my mind on this car without ever really accomplishing much... there's a reason for that. It's a great car, unique, stylish, reliable, and even kind of fun, but it's limitations really turn me off.

I hear you but respectfully disagree on the "not accomplishing much" statement. Your abilities lead you to expect more but you have documented a path for others to follow in the not so easy quest of wringing something out of the unloved PVR motor. Hell, just reading this thread has me looking at this http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/c ... 55040.html and I NEED to get rid of old Volvo's not buy more.

I followed a link to this post after trying to research some build options for my PRV V6. I've read it front to back at least twice so far. Mine is the "P" version out of an old 604 Peugeot sedan (2664cc odd fire). I also have a low mile 30T Renault odd fire PRV V6 with the single 38 DGAV carb, and an even fire PRV 2.8L engine out of a later 88' 505 GLX.

I'm a Peugeot guy at heart, with three Peugeot 505 Turbo's ('85, '86, and an '89), a 76' 504 sedan that will be getting the PRV this spring, 86' TD 505 wagon. The family rig is a Volvo for you hardcore types - 2000' V70R in Nautic Pearl blue. Pretty much bone stock save for the Koni yellow front struts, and Propus C BBS alloys for summer. It's remained stock as the car is already way faster than a family car needs to be... I also run www.505turbo.com - basically a site like this for 505 Turbo freaks.

Back to the PRV stuff: It's funny that you commented that you posted this for the 1 or two people that would ever tear into one of these beasts. Well - I'm one that is VERY thankful for how well you documented this build, but with your recent posts I had to join up and ask for some more details... The Peugeot version of this motor has great rep, but Peugeot owners are normally no where near the performance seekers that many Volvo owners seem to be, so finding performance stuff is harder. After finding this post - I was even contemplating building a boosted PRV to replace the 2.2L inline 4 turbo motor that's stock in the 505 Turbo as so many parts for the 4cyl are NLA. Power potential just seems so promising especially after it's boosted (IE John Lane's rally car) - and it would technically still be a 505 turbo...

For my 76' 504 I was wanting to just refresh the odd fire 30T motor which is why I found your post / site. It needs the sump changed over to the Peugeot set up (same as the Volvo from the looks of it), and I was going to reseal it and possibly tempted to crack the heads and clean them up as well after seeing what you did with yours.

I'd be very interested indeed to hear and discuss where the failings seem to be getting you down. When I was 17 my first car was a 504 that I swapped an odd fire PRV into, and that car although a budget build - was a hell of a lot of fun. It was a fast little car, and that odd fire sound was really quite awesome. I was hoping that now that I can actually build it properly (like you did here) it'd be even better... (23 years later I still have that PRV as a parts motor!)

I respect your decision of course, but I'm genuinely interested to know the details of why - especially if it's the motor itself that's let you down so much. Your technical posts are a joy to read and it's quite disappointing to hear that the PRV won't see the developement you initially hoped to persue. Sadly - knowing that you want to abandon it kinda makes me wonder if it's worth pursuing myself.

At the very least I'd like to hear what the back to back difference from headers to the Renault manifolds are. My brother in Virginia has a 88' 505 STX 5-sp with the even fire PRV and it uses the same crap log manifolds as the Volvo. I gave him a spare set of Renault manifolds to try out. (He's likely the 2nd outside guy watching this build...) So hearing your thoughts from a proper header set up to the Renault manifold is really interesting.

Rabin Rutten-James
Regina, SK