This is starting to get confused...you should be buying stock parts as Athal suggested for the prices he listed ($150 for front struts, $80 for springs etc.). There is no way you should be lookng at the lowering springs etc at IPD, just the stock replacements.

The low down on the parts you are getting needs some information. Many of us run Bil's on our cars and I've almost never heard of anyone having trouble with them. They are rebuildable for a reasonable cost and are much better than the quality of the stock parts. That's why they are twice the price of stock replacements. I've had a set of KYB's for 2 years in the back of the 122 and they are pretty soft - my Bils up front are perfect.

The lowering springs are going to wear out in maybe 250,000 miles - but it is hard to put a number on them. I completely understand that you wouldn't want to give the guy a brand new suspension for his used parts - but there has to be some comprimise somewhere...like I wonder how much he would accept for his parts. He wants to go stock, you want performance, so why not offer him $400 for the suspension plus installation and then he can buy the new suspension parts he wants.

Keep at it - having an nice handling car is worth it.

Craig

So...you were turning on to Macleod Trail...why? Uzzi's shop is down the street from my office. Getting to it from Macleod Tr is just a little bit out of the way...

pssst....spiller road....

heh...kinda what I was thinking...

Craig, both Athal and I agree that the out-of-the-box Bilsteins are wrongly valved for the 700 series. He's got them in his 945 with stock springs and finds them bad enough, but with my IPD springs I find them terrible. In Dale's 122 and in my 244, they were very nice. However, I've also heard from several sources that in a 240 they're undervalved on rebound (heck, they're even undervalved on rebound with stock springs, in my opinion). I don't think Bilstein valves these things with the greatest care for our old cars, especially when so many different vehicle configurations are available (760 turbodiesel automatic wagon with power leather seats probably has 400 lbs on a 740 GL sedan) and when combined with all the possibilities of lowering springs, it's pretty tough for a single shock to satisfy all conditions. I believe they're best used with stock springs, in any case.

They ARE rebuildable but it's not cheap ($75/strut, $65/shock, plus shipping & whatever taxes/duties) and that option on a daily driver isn't a good one since it'll take a few weeks or more to get them back, and a strut car must spend that entire time on jackstands.

In all the times Kat's spoken about her suspension, her #1 concern is to get rid of the creaks & groans. There's nothing wrong with Kat's springs since it's impossible to make springs softer through use - only by breakage or saggage will the spring "fail", and in both cases the car will sit lower than normal. A sagged spring is no softer than a new one, though. New shocks/struts, upper strut mounts, and sway bar end links, plus possibly a set of ball joints/tie rods/ends is all she needs. New springs? Bah I say!

Now, on to this trade. It seems to me to be false economy for Kat to pay half the labour bill PLUS a new set of shocks (and possibly springs, if this mechanic convinces her of that), just to get a "free" set of springs and shocks, especially when she's not sure she wants lowering springs. If Kat buys the new parts and asks one of us sweetly to help her swap parts, I'm fairly sure it'll cost less and she'll get newer stuff. If Kat has a broken spring, well, I guess my statement stands to be shot down.

ah yes, me and my 296k km car that I don't like sounding like a 296k km car.

that and dear god let me corner better. course, the endlinks I'm thinking will help immensely with that anyway...and at least I already have those (in my kitchen!)

I think my problem is I'm still deciding what I WANT out of my suspension, what different suspension bits will offer, what kind of difference does each kind make, etc etc etc. I need to figure out do I really want to lower the car, how much of a difference is 1.3 inches (or however much the standard bit is) on a daily driver....and how much baking I'll need to do to convince you guys for some assistance in this endevor. Or at least let me at your tools and tell me what to do lol

Next time we all get out I'm gonna pick some brains about suspension...beware. BEWARE!!!! oogity boogity. so uh...whens a wing night kinda evening where y'all might come out for a change?

(and Athal and Dale...pssst...I still don't know my way around that end of my neighborhood yet, I haven't been down there!! But I did take a back way to get back to my place...avoid mac trail entierly...whoot!)

I've heard of the valving issues (never driven in a 700 or 900 series car with bils), but they can be revalved and repaired - the price doesn't seem that bad to me, especially since lots of people have them on several cars before they even need any attention. I guess that wasn't my point, which was that they are a damn good shock and if you want them customized or rebuilt it is possible. Not so with many other brands (my KYB's for example - two years and they are toast for a shock that cost 2/3 of the price of my Bilsteins).

My final point was that Kat shouldn't get taken to the cleaners...if the mechanic wants to have someone else pay for new parts (springs, struts, bushings) for his car in trade for used parts (no matter how good they may be) then I'd offer to buy his sport parts and install them, he can use the money for his new parts - so we agree on that as well. If there was A broken spring or a strut that was holding up the deal, I'd still get the parts...but there should be a limit.

Next time you're in town, I'll let you drive my car, Craig. At first it might not feel that bad, but once you get used to it you start to feel how it dives into a hole and then JUMPS out of it.

For anyone buying shocks for thier 700/900, I'd recommend a Koni Sport (yellow, externally adjustable), which are about $200 more than the Bilsteins but will save you from spending $280 plus shipping on revalving. Strange that the Koni Sports are only $100 more than the Bilsteins for the S70...

Edit - in fact, the Bilstiens I've owned (two sets, plus the two sets my Dad's bought for his truck) have left me with a bad enough taste in my mouth for the stock valving. Yes, the Chevy Truck shocks leaves a little to be desired, too. For a daily, I would be tempted to say that the better choice would be to buy the externally adjustable Koni Sports so that you can dial it down for daily driving and crank it up for canyon carving, and have the best of both worlds.

Kat, have you been told exactly what half of the labour will cost you or what parts you stand to gain? I'm guessing no less than $500, and probably more, not to mention the cost of the parts you've got to replace. Koni Sports will cost $550, or $675 for the B&G/Koni Yellow package, at www.shox.com.

Without knowing what you stand to pay and what you stand to get, discussion beyond this is pointless IMHO.

yeah nobody tells me...sadly most of the times i talk to Athal's friend, he's busy or I am.

I dunno though, only cars I've driven enough to get a feel of supsension have been a toyota corolla, this volvo, (and I've test driven enough mazda 3 sports shh...I like their suspension)

Fact is, I DON'T know enough about suspension. I don't want to go off of "oh well Bilsteins are supposed to be good" but the thing is, I DONT know how they'll feel to me.

example - some people like their bilsteins. Not all. Personal preference coming in. so like I said, I think I need to KNOW what I want, and be able to communicate what exactly I want before I do anything...cause I mean face it, I don't want to pay lots of money for suspension components, go through the time of installing them, and then not like it.

Pogo stick - got it...who's going to take Kat out and give her a test drive to help make this decision? If I had the Canuck put together with the stock springs back in, we could have some fun. A trip around an on-ramp with the stock set-up makes you wonder if the car is going to fall over and the springs are so soft that even for a light weight, short wheel base car the ride was comfy (inertia be damed).

Total grandpa.

Then go for a rip in Dale's car - completely different experience. We won't even talk about the brakes (a significant component to handling as far as I'm concerned) - I still chuckle when I recall the time Dale drove my car on the Nelson trip...damn near ended up in the bushes coming into the camp ground - my stock brakes were not up to the challenge.

lol you know, for some reason I got a mental image that made me almost giggle on that one

I dunno. Back before my suspension was so...destroyed...(god what a difference two years with my parents made...I blame cold lake roads...the joke was that the CO of the base never got the roads fixed as a way to attempt to control the speed on base....)

ANYWAYS...BACK BEFORE...it wasnt so bad. not as tight as what I want, but still, she was no granny car.

You'd definitely want to go for a spin in Uzzi's car before you agreed to a swap anyway. Might be too "stiff" even for your liking!

Well 122s and S70s are worlds apart. Roberta's 850 rides and handles very well - still pushes like a dump truck at the limit, and the ride is still a bit harsh without the control, but compared to a stock 760 it's incredible.

I'm guessing that Uzzi's car is stiff mostly because of the shock he chose. I'm also guessing that Kat's car is soft because of the shock she's got. Based on Roberta's 850 and the way it rides and handles, I'm betting that all Kat needs to do is swap the worn components and it'll make her very happy.

I could take her for a ride in my car if she wants to feel what stiff is like on Calgary's winter roads. Sure it's fun in the corners, but it's no fun in Saskatchewan (ROUGH roads).

lol oh yes, I remember saskatchewan roads well from when I was a wee lass....(our dog at the time...his vet was in Pierceland....so it was Across The Border...and you could always tell once you crossed that boarder....roads went from crap to OH DEAR GOD THE VOLVO IS GOING TO GET EATEN BY A POTHOLE!)

(and yes, this was before Miss Viv's time, this was the time of Vivian...the 79 244 GL)

and ooh...did Matt just offer to take me for a ride?

uh oh, this could be trouble