I guess we will have to wait and see what happens when next the mercury drops.

Personally, I'm bloody terrified. I don't like using bloody terrified in relation to my car, but since the lads can't find something wrong with it when its decent...and the car only misbehaves when its cold...means I have to drive that car downtown....(ps. paul - if it does it or not i'm just going to bring that car to your shop when it gets cold again, cause although it may behave on the way in, it usually doesn't by the time i head back...I hope no one gets rear ended test driving it onto 17th)

Here are my options:

1. winter beater. Although my budget is kinda not that high, ($2k) it is enough to get me a 240 of some sort. It doesn't have to be pretty...it just needs to go.

2. scrape through the winter, drive through summer (I don't fear summer driving...the issues are cold weather related) and get either a new or gently used vehicle come fall. By fall, I should be 100% debt free (I don't consider mortgage debt oddly enough...) and have a bit more for a down payment (oddly enough, I was thinking Subie wagon of some sort)

Thoughts? I know some question the suitability of a 240 for a 'young lady' such as myself...but I just want something that I don't have to worry about getting rear ended cause my car just won't get up n go. Or be stranded at the side of Country Hills Blvd or highway 9.

If has to be a volvo, I like the 86-88 basic 240s and 91-93 cars, with strong preference that it has a good working M47 instead of an AW.

88 is a really good year for a generic POS you just drive of the 240s. Good wiring harness, M47, LH2.2, not going to rust as horribly as an earlier one. The good news is that it is basic and not a lot to break. Bad news is it is basic, and real old...though they are all old by now, and unless you get a real nice dealer serviced old lady 240 like one I had, it is going to want/need regular attention, like all volvos pretty much.

91-93 stick shift 240s are great too. A little more gadgety to babysit , but it is better laid out, and they are quieter, more comfy, and easier to obtain in non-horrible colors (like gold or beige). I regret selling my 92 245GL M47 car the most of any of them. That car really was a LOT better than early 240s, but still most of the good things about a 240. I'm looking for a clean black 91-93 245 for a daily driver so I can sell my 80 242DL, take a break from it, or make it a ton more evil.

Late model 940s are amazingly reliable. So boring and reliable it is a little scary for the most part. The headlights are criminal, much like an 86+ 240, but harder to get e-codes for.

88 and up 7 series are pretty good too, but I think they are hideous and too electrically gadgety for me (I don't care for seat heaters, power seats, sunroofs, leather seats yadda). But they are good cars that are better than 240s in many ways, even if they aren't to my personal taste. Black trim, e-codes, and a good color make them look a lot better...I like them in black, dark gray metallic (those get rear ended a TON), blue and red...in that order. 7/9 series benefit hugely from an LSD/locker and some weight in the back. Mom's open diff 1990 744ti is the most god awful horrible snow car I've ever driven. At least it stops good and is an M46 car. It also goes down the freeway at 70-100mph in pleasant ghastly silence with some dynomat.

Whatever you get that is 1995 and older is going to need A LOT, and is going to complain a lot if you don't feed it (they eat money mostly). For a dd, you are better off spending more $ getting a real nice clean serviced one that someone just drove and kept mint than getting a POS that costs you time, money and headache. You will feel like an idiot if you count on your car to get to work and it costs you $500 in time for a breakdown, endangers you etc because you didn't want to fork over a little more dough to get a good one.

I found the 744TI for mom that was a 1-owner car with 100K miles on it at the time. In 4 years I've done a clutch, oil and gas, one T-belt/seals and thermostat, fuel filter and a fair bit of little maintenance tweaks. Done all the brake calipers and lines from rust too. Thats it though. It still feels tighter and quieter than most new cars.

In a nutshell: Late model 2/7/9 that is well kept up mechanically with a good purchase inspection by a super crusty old volvo mechanic...or something non-volvo for a rational person.

what james said.

although... people usually buy a winter beater to save a really nice car (which yours is not) from winter thrashing so this means you would in essence own 2 beaters sort of, makes no sense.

i can't see that an s70 with 330k if it's been looked after isn't worth saving to drive a few more years, the money you spend on the winter beater ie: cost of, insurance etc. could go into fixing the age related issues on the s70. just b/c you haven't solved the cold related problems on the s70 doesn't mean you can't/won't so be persistent and fix/drive 1 car.

yeah you've had some problems nailing down what's wrong, but from reading all of the posts on the other thread (i stopped for lunch, supper and 3 pee breaks, hint, hint) you can't say that every option has been exhausted yet. give paul the g/d car for a week (get a rental if you have to, cheaper than buying a second car) and let him go nuts.

if you really want a new/newer car your second option makes the most sense, sell the s70 and buy whatever, owning 2 old cars b/c you can't get 1 of them to run right all of the time makes none.

Take the money you might spend on a winter beater and do some routine maintenance things the have been neglected on the S70. The major things (engine and transmission) don't seem to be on the brink of failure. It's a combination of things that haven't been done for years that is causing you the grief at this point. Fix those and you'll have a car that will last you a few more years. Replace all the fluids with synthetic. Flush everything that can be flushed. Replace things like oxygen sensors, coils, plug wires and thermostats.

What you'll get with a winter beater is simply another money pit that won't be any more reliable than what you have already. Even if it runs well now, it may not in a month and then you're faced with 2 cars that don't run and now no money to fix either one.

It's been said before and I'll say it another way: If you want a good reliable car, find a BABIED car that's SIMPLE and pay the premium for it. Late 240 wagon comes to mind. Search for one that was driven by gramma to church and pay the piper.

If you want something a bit more posh, pony up to something that's newer and more complicated but with fewer miles. It's gonna cost you more $$$ initially, and will probably lose more $$$ in depreciation, but overall it'll be more comfortable, better on gas, quicker, and easier to explain to your friends and family.

I'm absolving myself of the winter beaters because they drive you crazy. They cost money, they take up a second parking spot, they cost you insurance, and if you're like me you won't be able to take the buzzy, ugly, rusty, "don't care-itude" about the thing for long.

Dale's got the right idea, though - spend the money on stuff your car needs - hoses & fluids & belts & ignition components & oxygen sensors & shocks & stuff, and enjoy it. It's got LOTS of life left in it, and it still looks good. It's by no means a rare car, nor is it a particularly desirable car. What it is, is a GOOD car. Probably one of the best on this board, honestly. Not something to make a "summer toy" with, though. You'd do that with a 5 speed C70.

I agree with those guys (i'm not trying to suck up either ). You never know what kinda car you are getting unless you buy it of a really good friend or family.

But if you must buy another car just to boot around in and have a project car I would look for something Honda or Toyota.
Older ones are pretty simple and keep their value pretty well plus they usually run forever with or without fresh oil.

True that...i was actually considering grabbing a rental when the next cold snap comes and letting people have a carte blanche to get to the ROOT of my problem. and guys thanks for the love for Viv its true i do not want to let her go i just get so frustrated with this issue and with my own lack of know how which just makes EVERYTHING worse. she is (normally) a great car and i did want to get her to 500k

Reading the c70 thread.
In my personal opinion, and this is based of what I see. As much as I love the p2 v70s, I would never want to own one that is AWD. The amount of these things that I see that leak either due to the vent being clogged of because volvo is retarded with their design sometimes is rediculous. Yes you can reseal the angle gear, that is still stupid expensive (mind you 1/4 the price of a new one). The problem with that though is that the angle gear may be fubar'd already and then you have to replace it. Also it's not like the reseal is the slickest procedure anyway but heres a tidbit of info for ya, when the angle gear leaks at the halves it seems to always leak at the "stud" bolts which when removing then are always the loosest...who woulda known.
I love the look, feel and function of the p2's and I would love to own one. If I did then the minute my awd stopped working (IF it works in the first place) or the angle gear was pooched then that shit would be ripped out so fast. I think it would be possible to remove the driveshaft and leave the bar essentials in the angle gear so stuff doesn't leak.

Sorry to make that long winded and theres a high possibilty that it won't make sense.

PS to make everyone happy, there may be an 81 242 GLT becoming mine tomorrow.

Yay Andy! Good to have you back in the fold again.

On the P2 AWD - any chance of spooling the center diff, like you would on an all-out Talon? I know nothing about what you're describing, having never seen one. Next time you've got one on a hoist, let me know - I'd love to poke around 'neath.

My neighbor blew out both the angle gear (power take off unit off the front) and rear diff on his 2005 V70R...in reverse order of course. Poor guy...it went out 1000 miles after the warranty expired. I don't really imagine that making the center lack any clutch function would make the wimpy power take off unit or rear diff work better. He is a lot nicer to his car than I am to mine...the AWD would be dead on a late model car on day 2 for me.

What others said about maintenance...it is all the little things that makes a car a POS or not. The more the car bugs you, the more you will treat it like a POS and regret that you even own it. The more rattles, the more rust, the more noise, the uglier, the more rusted and stripped belts, little leaks, little rattles, little door latch mis-adjustments, broken door handle this, frozen lock that, squeaking belt this, mis-aligned accessory bushings that, took a shortcut repairing this etc the more you will hate the damn thing. It can get depressing with larger projects for me (car related or not). I just take a break, or take a leap of faith, plan it out ahead of time and knock it out. Friends for moral support helps.

I honestly like driving my 244ti police car just because it is cushy, no rattles, and has a bunch of new little stuff on it and I spent hours rebuilding the head, doing the vac lines, engine harness, flushing the fluids, fuel filter, fuel lines, alternator rebuild, beadblasting everything, intake swap, intercooling it, fixing the leaking police trans cooler, making sure the tires were balanced and good etc etc. I'm still going to sell or part it in the spring. I want one nice driver wagon and *maybe* a toy car, but the fate of my 242DL abuse machine has yet to be decided.

Your car is a nice driver. Just fix the snot out of it and drive it! Keep a log of your maintenance, use good little stuff, and you won't have to worry. A really good experienced independent machinist/mechanic well help/save you money exponentially. Even I take my car places I trust for work or have a machinist I really like working with do stuff I can do, they are better set up for it, and I trust them through a working relationship.

Volvos, though they like regular attention, don't surprise you a whole lot if you keep them repaired. Your car will be more expensive than a mint late 245 (about double in my experience), but the 245 is stone age compared to your car. A brick is a very linear car...you get out of it what you put in. Be thankful it isn't british where even when you fix it to the absolute best of your ability with the best parts you can find, it still breaks spectacularly whenever it so chooses at random (with few notable exceptions in the realm of all things british).

Welcome back andy lol. there is the thing with getting gently used over new a well. If I get a brand new car, with the miles i put on any warrenty would only last a year possibly two TOPS. Why pay that premium when it will not benefit me for so long? As far as the regular maint goes on Viv I think I may get started on that slowly - dist cap and rotor next oil change - which should be next week lol brake lines timing belt will be done in spring (due in 8 or 9k) I will contine this thought...

Alright...doing postings off a cell phone ftl...you only can do 500 characters at a time!

So the vac hoses I was thinking of doing come spring as well, especially since I had someone on TB with a 850 suggest that may be my problem...might make sense...bah! We will all have to discuss and stuff I think tomorrow night (I'm lookin forward to another gathering! I haven't seen people since the Lethbridge cruise!)

My parents...I think their whole logic of "lets not throw Kat the 5-6k she needs for this c70" is more based upon the fact that they want me to get a new car with warrenty. (I was talking with me mudder about this this very morning). I of course, made the comment that with my commute, any warrenty I get will only last one year, two max. So I will be paying a schwakload a month for a car...and a schwakload for the impending maintenence. Which is why I was really thinking getting used anyway. That way the depreciation has already hit...I could buy a car out or only do a loan for a shorter term...since it would not need to be as high. She commented about the wisdom of getting another Volvo, I reminded her that the engine in mine is still good, it's just giving us a problem we can't get to the root of just yet. And, above all, it is the devil I know.

Knowing my luck, by the time I get issues worked out that c70 will be gone anyway.

But hopefully by then we'll have Viv figured out and fixed, so it'll all balance out.

If I have a veh with a leaky angle gear sitting on my hoist over a weekend i'll give you a call Matt.

As for the warranty thing, if you are buying a new car (especially a volvo) I would suggest an extended warranty. I would not recommend the VIP warranty because they don't cover belts, hoses, and software but we offer another one that apparently does. I've also heard that if you don't use the extended warranty then you will receive most of your money back (good luck).

What's the certified pre-owned warranty like Andy, or is that the VIP warranty?

Always seemed to me that buying a certified car from any dealer was the way to go- cheaper than a new car, and often 7 years warranty. Never had to deal with said warranty, or had customers that did.

I believe its the VIP warranty, which really isn't all that bad and will save you a lot of money.