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 Post subject: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:11 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
The $250 960 has been the model of reliability since I bought it. Within a few weeks of buying it, it took us out to BC for our holidays and has taken us to Edmonton and Lethbridge numerous times since then and hasn't missed a beat. I've slowly been upgrading things like throwing out the Nivomats and putting in proper springs and shocks. I've upgraded the front sway bar and put in proper e-code headlights. The result of all this is a car that is a joy to drive and eats up the miles in comfort.

Fast forward to Christmas Day...

The 960 is loaded up with luggage and 4 adults for a trip to Edmonton to be with Beth's family for Christmas dinner and Boxing day. I set the cruise at 125 as we go under the Beddington Tr overpass and settle back for a nice drive. As we climb the hill to Country Hills Blvd, the car gears down as it should but as it starts pulling up above 3500 rpm I notice the steam coming from the exhaust seems to be a little much. Not excessive like a rad hose blowing but more than what I expect to see from the exhaust on a relatively warm day. My eyes move from the rear view mirror to the instrument cluster just in time to see the low coolant light come on. Hmmm... I pull over to the shoulder and pop the hood. There is steam coming from somewhere under the exhaust manifold. It has a big heat shield on it so I can't really see where the steam is coming from exactly but suffice it to say I wasn't prepared to drive it another 300km like that. We turn around and get the 740 and carry on.

Today I pulled it into the garage and pulled the heat shield off. The side of the block is wet but there doesn't seem to be coolant coming from the water pump or any of the hoses under there. Seems I have a head gasket replacement in my immediate future... :(

I need to pull the exhaust manifolds off before I make my final decision but at this point it looks like the problem. I know these blocks have seeping issues but this is definitely more than a porous block. I can't think of any other source for coolant that far back on the block (it's most wet where the exhaust manifolds are split..between #3 and 4 cylinders) and it seems to be higher up the block than where the expansion plugs are. I'll know better once the manifolds come off...

Might be a chance to get those BMW headers and big exhaust on... #-o

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:59 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1875
Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
Heater cores and head gaskets over the holidays, oh my!

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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:51 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
Yeah...I'd be bored if it weren't for fixing cars... :^o

Some pictures...

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It appears all the moisture is coming from between the head and block as all the pipes and hoses are dry. Seems like the head gasket would be the logical prognosis at this point unless someone has a better idea...

And just for giggles I started it with no manifolds on it. :shock:

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:12 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Pylon wrote:
And just for giggles I started it with no manifolds on it. :shock:


Atta boy. We'll do something about headers, despite my lack of TIG practice.


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:12 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 pm
Posts: 1875
Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
Oh man, that engine is a PREDATOR, like you just cut it and it's bleeding, coooool!
I'm off to Edmonton myself this afternoon- fingers crossed our habit of similar car problems stops here!

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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:05 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:29 am
Posts: 1790
Location: Eating tofu and legumes in my hippie shack
Sucky. Any idea if the car has been overheated in the past? Could the head be warped, or is this more likely just a faulty headgasket?

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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:30 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
From what I hear the head gaskets seem to let go about 300k. This engine has 305k on it so I suspect this is "normal". There are no indications this engine has ever had any work done to it other than normal wear and tear type stuff. I'm pretty sure any servicing has been done at Volvo though. The plugs in it were genuine Volvo triple-electrode pieces. Can't imagine they were cheap. Gaps look pretty big on them too so I suspect they've been in a while. I've got some Champion copper core plugs for it when it goes back together...

Got some more dis-assembly done tonight. Not as much as I thought I'd get done but it looks like I should be able to get it back together on the weekend provided I don't find a bunch of warpage...

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:20 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
If it makes you feel any better, I was all loaded-up on the 23rd, and stopped at the gym before heading north. When I got out of the gym all that was left were tire-tracks....


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:21 pm 
Strapping on extra booster rockets

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 329
THEN I blew a gasket!! :?


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:48 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Wait, what? Your car was stolen while you were at the gym?


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:46 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
So...progress has been made...sort of...

Cam cover is off.

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After spending an hour or two cleaning the remains of the chemical gasket off it's looking pretty good. Whoever invented that stuff never thought how much fun it would be to get off 10 years and a million heat cycles later.

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Next job was to free everything from the head and get it off. 14 head bolts on these puppies...

Oops...one of these does not look like the other ones... :cry:

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The good news is...if there is good news to come from a piece of head bolt stuck in your aluminum block, is my cobalt drill bits will actually drill into them...

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The bad news is the remainder of the bolt is over an inch and a half down the hole...

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Anyhow...the head is off.

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Seems it might have been off before...

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I don't think Volvo put head gaskets marked "Elring" on their cars from the factory...

What's left...

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So...contemplating my next move. I really don't want to pull the block out to drill that stinking head bolt out but I also don't want to completely mess up the hole by having a drill go in crooked...

Ugh...

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:54 pm 
Canadian Tire Bolt ons
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:21 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Calgary
Find a bolt (or rod) that you one get down the hole so that it fits with little to no wiggle room and is long enough to sit higher than the hole so that you can pull it out again. Drill a hole down the center of it and use it as a guide to drill your hole in the broken bolt.
Presoak the hole with a good penetrating fluid as well.

Did a web search for Elring and found that they are an OEM parts supplier.

http://www.epsparts.com/contents/show/Elring-Products-Information-Page


How bad was the head gasket where it was leaking?

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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:18 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
ssicarman wrote:
Find a bolt (or rod) that you one get down the hole so that it fits with little to no wiggle room and is long enough to sit higher than the hole so that you can pull it out again. Drill a hole down the center of it and use it as a guide to drill your hole in the broken bolt.
Presoak the hole with a good penetrating fluid as well.


Hmmm...good idea. We'll see. Still contemplating options. I paid $250 for the car and what money I've put into it (headlights, tail lights, rear suspension, heater motor) I can recover at least a portion of. There are still some unknowns. It's possible the head is warped and that is why the gasket let go. The bottom end is unknown. With 300k on it, it's hard to say how much longer it will last. It has been burning some oil (not so much that you can see blue smoke but it shows on the dipstick) so one can deduce either valve guides or rings are the culprit; neither of which I have any desire to deal with.

The car owes me nothing. The only reason I'm even contemplating fixing it is it's a nice car. The problem I have is it's a $250 car. Ugh...a dog chasing it's tail or what?

ssicarman wrote:
Did a web search for Elring and found that they are an OEM parts supplier.

http://www.epsparts.com/contents/show/Elring-Products-Information-Page


How bad was the head gasket where it was leaking?


Yes, Elring is an OEM supplier but I've never seen an OE head gasket with "Elring" embossed on it. WorldPac also says Victor Reinz is an OEM supplier. I'd be seriously surprised if any Victor Reinz gaskets ever made it into any car in the Volvo factory.

There is no evidence of any failure on the head gasket. I suspect it was leaking from a coolant passage via a warped head...

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Dale

'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:29 pm 
Canadian Tire Bolt ons
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:21 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Calgary
Was the broken bolt anywhere near the coolant leak?

Also have a look at the rest of the head bolts to see if they are the same length or if they are narrowed at any point. It they have then they may be why the leak happened.

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2008 V70 3.2 is mine and the Banks--Party time not the Banks anymore!


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 Post subject: Re: It begins...again...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:14 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
ssicarman wrote:
Was the broken bolt anywhere near the coolant leak?

Also have a look at the rest of the head bolts to see if they are the same length or if they are narrowed at any point. It they have then they may be why the leak happened.


The broken bolt is the second from the front on the exhaust side. That was the only bolt of the 14 that was completely dry. I wonder how many broken head bolts are this particular one? The leak seemed to be a little further back but on that side.

Haven't had a change to do an autopsy on the head bolts yet...

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'67 123GT
'67 122s
'99 AMG E55T


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