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 Post subject: WTB: Sub - feeler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:55 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Since I had so much success with my WTB thread for 6x9 speakers I am going to try this again.

My son is considering a sub for his car, anyone have something that would sound good for the right price? I am also looking for advice on "what to buy" if he has to go shopping for one.

Thanks 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:02 am 
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I have 2 10" sub in a clean box with a 350W ampli (All Alpine) that I would gladly get ride off.

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Unfortunately, it's 4,000km away... :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:12 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
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Hey Ian. I don't know how much you know about subwoofers, but the type of sub and enclosure really depends on what type of music Cody listens to, almost more so than any other type of stereo component. I say that you can never go wrong with JL Audio subwoofers as they're a good all-round unit, but there are some that sound better and others that make more boom.

Whatever type of sub you get, be it new or second hand, be sure you are also able to get the thiele-small parameters for that sub so you can build a proper enclosure. Usually two or three enclosures are suitable for each type of sub, and you'd choose the one best suited for the application.

A simple sealed box is usually very small and is less sensitive to "errors" in size, but needs to be fairly air-tight to work properly. It's the quietest and least efficient, but usually produces the smoothest bass response and the tightest sound, generally preferred by audiophiles.

A ported box is usually about twice as large (internally) as the sealed box and has more tuning features. It's less sensitive to having all the gaps perfectly sealed, but the entry and exit around the port must be nice and smooth to avoid port noise. It's more efficient than the sealed box and makes more bass around the 45-60 hz area, but it should not be used below the port tuning frequency because then the excursion of the cone goes out of control. Built properly, this type of sub is actually cleaner sounding than the sealed box but is not quite as crisp on transitions, and of course it can't play frequencies down to the subaural zone like the sealed box can.

A fourth-order band pass box is more efficient than both the above boxes, but that comes at the penalty of complexity and sound quality. One of the bonuses of the fourth order is that it doesn't REQUIRE a low-pass crossover because the sound on either side of the operating band is greatly attenuated, but it will always sound better with a crossover. They're sized somewhere in between a sealed and ported box, though sometimes they're bigger than ported. Like a ported box, the usable frequency doesn't extend down into the subsonic range, but because the speaker is sitting in a sealed enclosure it's not as damaging to the driver as it would be in a ported box.

There's also a sixth-order band pass box that's even more complex and limited, but probably not worth talking about. There are transmission line enclosures like what would be used in a home audio environment, but these are generally huge. There are free-air subs as well, but they require a trunk where the cargo and passenger compartments are perfectly sealed, and you need to mount the speaker facing towards the cabin (usually on the parcel shelf, if you have room, or in an adapter panel below the parcel shelf if possible.)

Have fun :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:29 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Ugly Duck wrote:
Hey Ian. I don't know how much you know about subwoofers, but .... Have fun :)

That is what I love about this forum, we have experts and geeks that know something about everything, thanks Matt we shall be talking :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:57 pm 
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Pa231 wrote:
I have 2 10" sub in a clean box with a 350W ampli (All Alpine) that I would gladly get ride off.

Unfortunately, it's 4,000km away... :(


How much? Where is it, Quebec? I'd love an excuse for a road trip :D

- R


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:48 am 
granny_star
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first half of that road trip is pretty boring raz...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:16 am 
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Would it need to be picked up if I had the room?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:46 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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neil_240 wrote:
Would it need to be picked up if I had the room?

When you get old your memory fades :oops:
When are you coming out again (I forgot) and would you have room???

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:51 am 
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I'm not coming out till the first of June, that might be a little to late for you...
I think I might have room, but I'm still not sure what I am all bring out. If the time is good I can really see if I'll have the room


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:05 am 
granny_star
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aw now neil, you're gonna thwart raz out of a road trip!!! ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:29 am 
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I was just trying to be helpful. and plus if he wanted a road trip he could fly to Hali and then drive out with me... anyone for that matter...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:32 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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If Cody want's big thumping base before June - follow the advice of Dr. Dupuis he's got his T-S parameters down. I've built a couple of audiophile subs and it isn't rocket science (well, there are a lot of equations, but other than that). The rest of the construction is easy - make sure that the case makes no noise as that's the speaker's job and for a sub to sound good it should have walls that are 1.5" thick MDF with bracing (anyone want to help move my sub? :D ). By definition subs are supose to make sound you feel, not hear and have to move a massive amount of air to do the job. My sub is tuned to 40 HZ which is about where my main speakers are no longer much use.

Oh and one final point - get out the Dynamat (or equivalent) and for heaven's sake get the license plate not to buzz - I hate that with a passion only rivaled by my distaste for fart-can mufflers on Sunfires.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:33 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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122_Canuck wrote:
If Cody want's big thumping base before June - follow the advice of Dr. Dupuis he's got his T-S parameters down. I've built a couple of audiophile subs and it isn't rocket science (well, there are a lot of equations, but other than that). The rest of the construction is easy - make sure that the case makes no noise as that's the speaker's job and for a sub to sound good it should have walls that are 1.5" thick MDF with bracing (anyone want to help move my sub? :D ). By definition subs are supose to make sound you feel, not hear and have to move a massive amount of air to do the job. My sub is tuned to 40 HZ which is about where my main speakers are no longer much use.

Oh and one final point - get out the Dynamat (or equivalent) and for heaven's sake get the license plate not to buzz - I hate that with a passion only rivaled by my distaste for fart-can mufflers on Sunfires.


Thanks Craig

Yes speaker box construction is easy for me, my second hobby is wood working and I have a complete cabinet shop (although as Matt will attest it is a little messy right now .... no comments Matt, please)

All I would need is for one of you geniuses to provide the box dimensions and away Cody and I will be building. Cody has also leaning hard towards a 10" JL speaker, again as Matt has recommended

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:57 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Too easy, what you need is the speaker information and a few calculations (found some of the basics on this website...I use to do these by hand back in the stone age - this will be easier).

http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm

I'd suggest a sealed enclosure to keep the volume down. I've always designed ported cabinets as the bass is tighter. The shape of the sealed enclosure is less critical than it is for a ported cabinet. Spend a little more time on the joinery (I've used sliding dovetails and at the very least a rabbet joint)...butt joints don't offer the best rigidity. Make sure you line the inside of the cabinet. I've actually used a variety of different things depending on what I was after including, but not limited to: carpet (shag is best), mouse pads (for the neoprene), egg crate foam, and sound deadening material.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:19 am 
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If you would like, I can provide you with the dimensions for a box that will make your subs sound amazing without over excursion. Its a program I used to build the one in my volvo and I think you all heard that one.

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