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 Post subject: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:50 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Just wanted to pass along my great news for the day. As you may recall, I was having problems with my 122 building a lot of heat very quickly in the new engine. I also didn't have a working alternator and a few other problems etc. So after a couple of e-mails and a lot of head scratching, Matt comes up with the idea that the belt (there is only one) may be slipping on the fancy-ass powder coated pulleys. I also changed out the nasty pink anti-freeze for tractor power green stuff as we figured that was a bad idea. I didn't think this was the problem, it's not like you could hear them slip and everything was spinning. But it made sense, and Matt's not usually wrong.

I'll try anything once - and honestly I was out of ideas, there was no air in anything and while I didn't have the heater hooked up there was no reason for things like the alternator to be not working (I rebuilt it and had it tested - all A - OK). So now that the weather is cooperating, I spent some quality time with a utility knife blade scraping off the powder coat.

It took a FULL DAY to scrape it off. I knew it was tough, but had no idea what that meant until now. I didn't want to pull the rad and get everything pulled the easy way as I figured it would be just a little harder to remove than paint. Nope. Never seen anything stick like powder before.

Long story sort, I got them cleaned up (Dremel with a burr even had trouble as it melts). I got the belts back on, then re-torqued the head and resurfaced my rockers (I thought they were fine, but my valve train was a little noisy as there was a thou our two of wear). Then I sparked it up - it started right up (after the fuel hit it) and ran great.

No heat (remember my rad could cool 400+ Hp.) - I ran it for a couple of minutes (that's all it took before) and the temp gauge just started to come up - very slowly as it should (it use to spike pretty hard). I had left the charger on it for a couple of hours (over night) and the ALT light was still on just a little (battery was not fully charged) and the Volt meter in the car was reading 16V, where before I would get 12 or less. So there is charge. These alternators are cool things - they even charge at idle (the car use to have a generator and wouldn't charge until it hit 2000 rpm.

This totally made my week/year. I also figured out how to make a new switch shaft for the OD and will be looking at selling those - so I now have to put the fancy steering wheel on the car and get the mirrors fitted. Then put the hood on and get going on the paint work. We should be ready to go (knock on wood) off to the paint booth in a couple of weeks.

Thanks again to Matt - I owe you buddy.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:52 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
This made my day. I am SO glad everything's working now. You know, I'd forgotten that your alternator wasn't charging - maybe I knew that when I suggested that things were slipping... I'm not sure. But now that I put 2 + 2 together, and look at it through hindsight, it makes perfect sense.

If I'm this happy, you must be on cloud nine.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:09 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
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Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
Great call Matt, that would have been a very tricky thing to diagnose. :supz:
Sounds like your car build is entering the home stretch Craig =D>

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:32 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Location: Missing my garage in Sunnyside
Uglyduck...not just a pretty face.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:50 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Ugly Duck wrote:
This made my day. I am SO glad everything's working now. You know, I'd forgotten that your alternator wasn't charging - maybe I knew that when I suggested that things were slipping... I'm not sure. But now that I put 2 + 2 together, and look at it through hindsight, it makes perfect sense.

If I'm this happy, you must be on cloud nine.


Ya, you couldn't wipe the smile off my face today. Now just have to get some wiring cleaned up, the HID lights installed and that fender cover fixed up and the mechanical things are done. I was so close to taking it for a spin, but managed to resist.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:27 pm 
Site Admin
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:01 pm
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Location: Always in front of a computer or behind a wheel
=D> :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:34 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:29 am
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Location: Eating tofu and legumes in my hippie shack
HOORAY!!! =D> =D>

2+2 indeed....I never would have thought to link the alternator problems with the cooling problems. It all makes sense now.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:37 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
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Greg, Interested in putting the hood on and going for a spin on the weekend?

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:17 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:29 am
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Location: Eating tofu and legumes in my hippie shack
Hells yeah!

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:21 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
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Location: Lethbridge, AB
Shake down continues. Alternator is now pulled to go in for testing tomorrow - it suddenly went silent today for no apparent reason. Water temp issues continued on a test drive and Greg and I tracked it down to what we think could be the problem. The e-fan sensor was still not switching things on, but we think this is caused by the old inline block heater (not the same problem as before). The hose from the head that feeds into the block where the temp sensor is also houses the heater. The hose that leads from the head is hot to the touch, the hose that goes from the heater to the block is cold - it comes off tomorrow. That should get that problem solved as the block and head will be around the same temp.

I also had the car intermittently start/stop/start/stop etc as I was driving around. After letting it cool it runs fine. I think the problem is the exhaust manifold heating my fuel line and vapor locking on me. The line was hot - dammit I really wanted the line to go around the back of the engine. I'm now going the direct route like the factory did. Having the hard line made from Al probably didn't help the heat transfer.

The heat in the head also seems to be causing the dieseling as the car only runs on a little when hot - not when cold. We're guessing a combination of the fuel line problem and the temps getting up there.

So that's the bad news. The good news is that the HID's are installed and working and the rest of the wiring (including an 8 ga line from the alt to the starter) is all finished, jacketed and tucked in nicely.

Basically, there will be no time to paint the car before Portland, providing I can get these gremlins sorted out. Best part - it pulls like a freightliner, so at least I'm making more than 60 hp.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:26 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
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Location: Calgary, Ab
Would the car stay cool as long as you were moving? It was just not turning on the fan when stationary?

Do I have to say "I told you not to install that thing", or should I resist? :wink:

Crappy to hear about the vapour lock and the alternator, though. Maybe you can just wrap the fuel line in that heat reflective wrap for now?


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:52 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Ugly Duck wrote:
Would the car stay cool as long as you were moving? It was just not turning on the fan when stationary?

Do I have to say "I told you not to install that thing", or should I resist? :wink:

Crappy to hear about the vapour lock and the alternator, though. Maybe you can just wrap the fuel line in that heat reflective wrap for now?


Ya, I was thinking that as I was holding on the not so hot coolant lines - Oh, well, no need for a block heater on this car anymore, so "You told me so".

It will stay cool if I put the fan on, or assuming I could keep it moving for more than a couple of minutes, the air flow would do the trick. I took the cap off with the e-fan on and could watch the flow through the rad as the thermostat opened and closed. Doing a new fuel line is no problem and getting the alternator and regulator checked is better now than later in May.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:17 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
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Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
The fuel issue, do you have a return line, as in a 3 line regulator?
This will keep the fuel moving through the lines and prevents fuel heating and vapour locks
Just an idea :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:06 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
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Shoot, like I was supposed to predict that your block heater would cause this problem... :P


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:12 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
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Location: Lethbridge, AB
Volvord wrote:
The fuel issue, do you have a return line, as in a 3 line regulator?
This will keep the fuel moving through the lines and prevents fuel heating and vapour locks
Just an idea :wink:


No return line...way more work than just re-routing the line. Now if I was going to FI the thing, then I'd have to do that, but at this point FI is not in the cards for this car.

I just think that the heat soak off the manifold is too much for this fuel line. Better to find out now while I'm still driving with the hood off than later when it matters.

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