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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:18 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Location: Lethbridge, AB
Ugly Duck wrote:
Shoot, like I was supposed to predict that your block heater would cause this problem... :P


Totally predictable...NOT. Never had a problem with it before. Too bad I went and drilled holes to attach it to the fire wall. I think I'll leave it there as a testimony to your "rightness" on this issue. This really makes zero sense, but hot water is not getting past the heater, maybe it only flows one direction and it was plumbed the other way last time? Who knows? (sure didn't look that way). If this is the only problem, I'll consider this a small bump on the road of performance.

I think the fuel line may be entered into the "Hall of Really Good Ideas That Didn't Work". Funny thing, some random guy on Tbrix predicted that it wouldn't work - but it sure looks good.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:03 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Location: Calgary, Ab
Well can you just reverse the hoses for a try? There totally might be a check valve in there...


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:22 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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It's not that big a deal to just disconnect it. Best to eliminate variables in this equation rather than modify them - it is a non essential part.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:26 pm 
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Ugly Duck wrote:
Well can you just reverse the hoses for a try? There totally might be a check valve in there...


Doesn't any inline type heater have a check valve in it to operate? The way I understand their operation the heated fluid rises by convection by pushing against the check valve otherwise the heated fluid rises in both directions instead of circulating? Having said that I have seen posts elsewhere that say to always pull the check before installing (could be the Bubba effect ie: my dad and his dad etc.)? Having the check valve installed seems to be intuitive to me but I can't speak from experience.

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66 122S (Garage Queen)
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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:45 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
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Location: Calgary, Ab
Doesn't really make sense to me to have the check valve installed in the first place: if the warm liquid will rise, it'll rise without anything to "push" against. And if it pushed the check valve closed, how would cold liquid get into the block heater and thus why would any liquid circulate through the engine?

Even with a very light check valve, the convective forces are so small, I wouldn't want to put anything in their way.

Edit - but you know that I'm not the biggest block heater fan, therefore I am not intimate with their inner workings... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:58 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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I'll check it out some day. When I painted it it didn't look like there was anything fancy on the inside other than the heater. There must be some form of check valve to be preventing the coolant from flowing. Got some other stuff to clean up tonight, so will get to this tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:33 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
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Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
If it is one of those inline heater hose recirculating heaters, everyone I have seen (and installed) all had a check ball in them. The idea was that it forced the heater water through the heater core first and would initiate circulation. This way the driver got warmer air first.

Ya right as if that ever worked .. but the idea was there.

If you installed them in the wrong heater hose or the wrong way around = no heat for heater.
My question is that this should not be the cause for the overheating? your rad capacity is plenty and when the heater valve is closed there is no flow through the heater anyway. The only thig I can think of is there could be a vapour lock in the heater area or back of the head that the "block heater" is preventing from being purged.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:20 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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I believe Craig no longer has an overheating "problem" - if he keeps air moving through the rad the car stays cool, but the problem is that the block heater check valve is preventing warm water from getting to the rad fan switch, which is just downstream in the same hose. With the rad fan jumpered on, it stays cool indefinitely.

I hope you didn't spend a day scraping powdercoat for no reason, Craig.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:27 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

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Ugly Duck wrote:

I hope you didn't spend a day scraping powdercoat for no reason, Craig.


Methinks 10 minutes in the beadblaster might've been a more effective use of time. Craig needs that bigger garage so he can have a bigger compressor so he can have a beadblaster... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:55 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Ugly Duck wrote:
I believe Craig no longer has an overheating "problem" - if he keeps air moving through the rad the car stays cool, but the problem is that the block heater check valve is preventing warm water from getting to the rad fan switch, which is just downstream in the same hose. With the rad fan jumpered on, it stays cool indefinitely.

I hope you didn't spend a day scraping powdercoat for no reason, Craig.


Matt's got it right. If the fan is jumpered then all is well with the heat issue. The block is just not getting the head return. Overall, this is not good as the heat balance of the engine is more biased towards the head - just where you don't want it. Fuel line almost done, will get the heater hoses done tonight before the snow flies again!

I've got the electrician coming for 100A in the garage in early May. When trimming trees this weekend, I managed to disconnect the garage (the downed line now has a plug attached - electrician looked at it and gave me this look :shock: ). It works.

While the beadblast cabinet would be nice - one less car would be nicer.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:59 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Just heard from the alternator repair shop - the alternator has developled a short in the rotor...we are now looking for another rotor.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:06 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:19 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Lethbridge, AB
Final update I hope. Dale drove down on Friday to deliver the alternator and a few other things that I had stashed in his garage. With his help, we managed to get almost all of the bits and pieces done in a single fairly relaxed day. We started at the JY where we got the harness we needed for the new voltage regulator. Then we fiddled with wiring and getting the regulator hooked up. Dale got the little oil leaks dealt with and I got the new fuel line built (so many fittings) with the new FPR, then on to the block heater disconnect - went fine. Started her up and bled the rad by letting it puke all over the floor (we had a bucket). Then with some cleaning and fussing we headed out for a quick drive - literally.

While in the garage with the engine running, the e-fan wouldn't come on again - engine temp gauge reading 190 - 200 degrees F, no spiking, also not rising. The rad can keep up with the engine at idle with no air flow. Then the fan came on when we rolled past Greg's house (three short blocks away) - I guess the water pump is circulating all the hot stuff out of the head while moving. It never went off again until we stopped.

Took her up and down the coulee a bunch of times in 3rd and pressurized the engine pretty well. The throttle response/rev happy nature of the new engine in intoxicating. Cool thing was everything worked (even the OD that I rebuilt almost 3 years ago). The e-brake cable is rattling on the exhaust and I need to get the rear sway off of the exhaust. We got a little freaked out by the sound of the rear sway bushing hitting the exhaust while decelerating down the big hill. Pulled over and found nothing wrong (well a little melted polyurethane).

Hot idle still gives 25 psi oil pressure (about 40+ cold) - off idle the oil pressure is 40 - 50 psi hot or cold. So that seems fine to me. The engine seems to heat soak the switch in the block as the e-fan was not going on and off as it use to, mind you we were not being "nice" to the engine.

My butt dyno tells me that the engine is healthy, but it is not crazy powerful. I would guess that I'm making much more than stock - probably 140 ish. I don't think it's making 160 at this point. It still puts a smile on my face. I've got to dial a little of the 15 degrees of timing out of it as it was doing a little pinging up hill hard (maybe 2 degrees). The run on is still there a little - I'll dial another 0.5 psi out of the FPR and see if that helps (it's not bad - just a little).

OK, I'm babbling. That's it for now. I've got to put some miles on this thing - too bad the weather is not cooperating.

A special thanks to Dale for coming down, Matt and Greg for their help and support, and to everyone on the board for all the assistance.

Craig

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:16 pm 
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pics or it didn't happen :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:44 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: T2C
RaZ wrote:
pics or it didn't happen :)


Oh it happened. I even drove it. :D

It's great to finally see and hear it run. I don't think it's actually much quieter than my 122 outside but once the windows are rolled up you can carry on a conversation nicely. With the care and precision that the car has been assembled with, I have no doubt it will make it to Portland and back without a stitch of trouble...

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly Duck to the Rescue
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:44 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:32 pm
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Location: Didn't learn, now renovating bathroom #2, and you think cars are expensive!!!
Awesome and congratulations, looking forward to seeing it again.
The only thing is noticed wrong is that in Dale's post the smile was not big enough :D

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