My first attempt at trying some new and more difficult (for me) maintenance work has left me a little worse for wear and Lisa's car is in the same shape. "Attempted" to change the water pump, timing belt and front seals on her 1990 240 and went from a car that ran pretty well with no leaks to the current situation of water pouring out all over and the engine not firing.... fuck (I'm too tired to even shout).

Generally everything went well with no rusty broken crap. The rope trick worked as advertised for removal but I couldn't get in to lock up on install, I ended up installing against the tranny in 4th and the parking brake. It took a couple of times to line up all of the pulleys but I they all lined up after a complete revolution of the crank. As for the water pump I used a smear of RTV to get the gasket to sit down on the pump, maybe I should have hung the gasket on a couple of bolts and then pressed the pump in place? I never put anything on the pipe connection and it was pouring out of there as fast as the bottom of the pump. After doing more reading I think I probably botched the seals too as I tapped them in with a piece of wood going around the circle, in hindsight the intermediate shaft seal is probably in way too far as well. I did a ton of research before starting and had the Bible out the whole time which really doesn't give a ton of insight.

Oh well, I need to eat and have a beer I'll start tearing everything out (again) tomorrow and see whats what...

So pulled everything off and found the water pump gasket looking OK but the heater pipe seal is torn which explains the water pouring out of that connection. I don't think the main seal leaked from looking at it but there was a lot of water pouring out from what appeared to be the bottom of the pump, could it have been the heater pipe seal water leaking around? When I installed the pump I inserted the heater pipe first and tightened up that bolt to keep it from shifting which was supposed to keep the seal from tearing... NOT. After that with the pump hung on 2 bolts I pried it in and up against the mushroom seal and buttoned it up tightening in a star pattern till they were all good and snug.

Now on to the timing belt, as far as I can tell all of the marks line up and nothing looks out of the ordinary. My only confusion comes from the rope trick. If I lined up the camshaft mark and look in the oil fill hole the #1 cam is inboard and up ~ 45 deg and #2 is outboard at 90 deg which is what I read was correct for #1 at TDC? I then rotated 90 deg past and attempted to stuff my rope in without success. When I rotated the engine with my finger over the plug hole I felt pressure after TDC not as it approaches? I got pissed off (s'more) and stuffed the rope in easily at what should have been TDC and rotated the crank and it locked up in 90 deg. I then broke the crank bolt and carried on?





Thoughts, suggestions??

Edit: Just noticed a picture on BB on what properly lined up pulleys look like and realize that I lined up the crank on the boss instead of the slot which means its out 180 deg. ?? So I think I solved that mystery, still trying to figure out the WP install.

Hey Jim,
Sorry to hear about your problems and frustration. Crappy.
I'm no expert on these things, but I'll offer my two cents. I usually try to lube the water pump seals before they go in. I'd probably tighten the pipe bolt last, once all the water pump bolts are tight. You say you snugged the bolts up on the water pump....I'm assuming you did them to the required torque spec? Also, was the water pump mating surface completely free of old gasket and clean?

So I'm looking at the pic...is this your car or the pic on the BB you speak of?

Hey Greg, those are the pics of my car as it sits right now at 180 deg out on the crank right? I really spent a lot of time on the WP gasket surface including sanding with 2000 grit paper soaked with solvent and then a solvent wipe down. In hindsight the torque was wrong as I found specs on BB after the fact, I referenced Bentley during the install and they just say to tighten the bolts no torque value. I lubed both of the rubber seals with Vaseline and used a bit of RTV on the gasket to hold it in place. I got the tip of tightening the heater pipe first off of BB which worked for others but not for me? The gasket and the mushroom seal look fine and should be useable, the heater pipe seal is definitely NFG.

I also am pretty sure I should re-do the front seals and install them using an even method of pressure/insertion application. The lips never rolled or anything else undesirable, but I probably bent/folded or mutilated the metal springs in the seals with the tapping in as opposed to a cylindrical application of force?

In the end I'm a little PO'd as I would like to have the car done by now, but it has/continues to be a good learning experience so as long as I don't significantly break something else or take too much longer I'll be happy.

Nothing looks lined up to me on that engine Jim. All three of the white markings on the belt aren't lined up with anything that looks like the markings on the pulleys, so I can't really tell. Glad to hear the WP mating surface was all clean. Now that I think about it, my last install I didn't tighten the bolts to any specific spec either. As for the pipe bolt, if you read to tighten that first, fair enough. No idea how much a difference that would make.

As for the seals, its kinda your call. I've put them in without proper tools in the past with good success, but never with the housing already in place. If you think they got wrecked on the way in, it would probably be good to replace them. Hope this helps.

I'm stuck with marking and other university related duties all week - if you need a hand on Saturday give me a call (I have a strut brace for you). As Greg pointed out, you've not got the timing marks around the belt lined up. There are three marks on the belt - they line up with the pulleys. I've changed the seals using the method you describe, and nothing has leaked. As you lubed them, they should be fine. In a couple of hours we could get it all stitched up and running no problem.

Hey guys thanks for the feedback. On the WP install I did the heater pipe first as I mentioned from a BB tip, although it seemed the easiest to me to line up and suck it on to the pipe first using the bolt?? If you look at the pulleys the white marks on the cam and intermediate shafts line up with the marks on the back timing cover, the crank is definitely wrong as the marking on the back should have been to the slot not the boss on the crankshaft. When I installed the belt initially the single marks were on the cam and intermediate pulleys as they should be but on BB it says they won't line up anymore after the engine has been rotated which I have done, does this sound right? They instruct that as long as all three pulleys respective marks line up after the fact is what matters?

Craig, from what you are saying I might leave the seals for now and see how it goes. For the future I picked up a 36 mm socket and a 2" PVC collar to use for pushing them in more evenly next time. I appreciate the offer of help, I have more seals on the way so I sure hope I can get it back together before Saturday, although I should hook up with you and grab the strut brace.

You're right, Jim - the belt won't line up with the reference points again once the engine is rotated (well, eventually it will every once in a while) and all that matters is that:

- when #1 is at TDC,
- the camshaft timing mark lines up with the reference on the belt cover (unless you're using an Avalanche cam pulley), and
- the distributor rotor is pointing at the #1 plug wire.

From there, the engine will run and you can set the timing. Make sure the crank is actually at TDC by inserting a chopstick through #1 spark plug hole and cranking the engine back and forth while feeling piston position with the chopstick, and physically check the position of the rotor.

Edit - I forgot to comment on the heater return tube seal: I install it about halfway over the end of the tube and then push the water pump on. I've never torn one from there, and sometimes I need to use the bolt to pull it home. I don't like the idea of bolting the WP to the tube before the WP is at least finger-tight on the block, for fear of misalignment.

^^ Thanks for that Matt, that heater pipe seal install method makes sense. Thanks as well for the confirmation on the belt marks after rotation, I am going to use the chopstick to check for TDC as well as the other points you mentioned. Come to think of it Greg mentioned the chopstick trick awhile back but I forgot about it!

And I had a quick look at a random B234 crank pulley I have, and it seems that the boss is probably supposed to be lined up with TDC. Looking at your pictures, it looks to me as though the camshaft is a couple teeth too far advanced, but that's just a guess.

Here's the pic from BB, it shows the slot lining up with the casting mark which lines up with the camshaft marks, whereas in my pic I screwed up and have the boss on top so 180 deg out?? I think the angle in my picture of the cam pulley might be a bit misleading, although it could probably (will) go back a hair when done.

Interesting. I never really thought about the way the cam and crank pulleys line up. That string puts it in perspective...

Well it's all back together and it runs!! Thanks to Craig for helping out and providing pointers and debunking a number of interweb myths as well. A bit of a gong show but a good learning experience, the next one should be a Po'P. Next up poly bushings...

Sounds like good stuff. I love debunking interweb wisdom. Which ones did he tee off on?

- should not loosen/tighten crank bolt with impact wrench (we did)
- install spark plugs w/o anti-sieze (we used)
- dex-cool is ok for old volvo's (returning today)

a couple others but my brain just experienced a shutdown...