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 Post subject: 'What am I going to make' Tbricks link :)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:28 am 
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http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=102239

For you guys info, I got a bunch of CRAZY deals with Rick - thats where I got the block (fully furnished block might I add) - Xspower 100 dollar intercooler and muffler - lol :)

IPD turbo cam, i've had for a while, never put in anything.

- R


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:23 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
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Location: Calgary, Ab
Edit - Raz and I have talked, and we're going to try to work it out on our own. I shouldn't have brought it up publicly, which invited everyone else to get into business between Raz and myself. I've deleted the other posts. Sorry 'bout that, Raz.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:54 am 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
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Location: Calgary, Ab
As far as how much power you'll make, I think the question is "how much power will your transmission take?"

The L block FT with 13mm rods should be solid to beyond 350 hp. The turbo cam and gear will help you breathe very well. Megasquirt running 46#/hr injectors will give you lots of fuel and support lots of power. There's a few things missing, though:

Turbo - that T3/T4 you linked to is indeed crap, but the level of crap is in question. One guy on Tbrix is running low 13s on one and has been boosting it to over 20 psi for the last while. It still hasn't blown up, while his actual Garrett T3/T4 blew up in 50 miles. I think they're hit-and-miss, and at $150 a pop, it's a gamble. The HY35W would be a good choice, as they're a REALLY strong turbo with a nice wide powerband and an excellent reputation, and they're available on eBay once in a while 'cause the CTD guys are upgrading them all the time. However, the kiddies are all looking for the HY because it's got the smaller turbine housing to work with their little 1.6 & 1.8 litre motors. I've got an HX35W that I'm going to be trying on my car, which might require a slightly smaller cam than the IPD Turbo to be truly happy. The key with the Holsets is to deal with the wastegate - it doesn't flow nearly enough. I'm going to try porting mine out and using a 39mm exhaust valve as a flapper, but Alamo turbochargers said that they could do the same thing with the biggest flapper that will fit, for about $150.

Fuel system: Your injectors will flow about 480 cc/min each at 3 bar and about 550 cc/min if you install a 4 bar regulator from a turbo Dodge. That should be good for between 350 hp at "safely rich" to about 425 hp at "scary lean". Great, but you're gonna need a fuel pump. The fuel pump in your car, brand new, is good for about 3.5 of your injectors at 3 bar and about 2 of your injectors at 4 bar. You could try a Walbro high pressure, which is what I'm going to be using, or you could try dual K-jet fuel pumps in parallel. Either would take some monkeying, but the dual K-jet pumps will be cheaper.

Powertrain: Your transmission is NOT going to take what the engine will give. I don't know how much power it'll take, but eventually it'll blow up when you're in 3rd gear. I'm going to be installing my T5 into my car, but that requires a buch of money invested. Clutch, pilot bearing, throwout bearing, transmission adapter, shifter, driveshaft... I think the easiest & cheapest way you could survive with that power is by installing an AW71 automatic. If it's in good shape, they can take lots of punishment, but I know how much you like manuals so I doubt this is an option. Aside from buying up someone's Getrag, Toyota, or T5 swap kit, I don't know what to suggest.

Rear end: You've already blown up how many welded rear ends through abuse? Might be time to try something else. You can get a Powertrax locker for that rear end, and if you've got an automatic I don't think it would be so terrible to live with. They're strong, can take lots of abuse, get rid of all the trouble with side and spider gears, weakened welded bits, etc. You'll snap axles first, but that will be rare. You could keep trying the welded route, though, but how many replacements will it take to pay for a Powertrax? (same arguement as for the tranny swap)

And FWIW, nitrous doesn't work that way. If it's a 50 shot on a V8 it's a 50 shot on a 4 cylinder. It's enough air and fuel to make 50 horsepower - if it's in a V8 that 50 hp is distributed over 8 cylinders at 6.25 each. Realistically a 50 shot makes more than that, so your 78 hp claim isn't WRONG, just not specific to a 4 banger install.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:34 pm 
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Ugly Duck wrote:
As far as how much power you'll make, I think the question is "how much power will your transmission take?"


Lols :)


Ugly Duck wrote:
The L block FT with 13mm rods should be solid to beyond 350 hp. The turbo cam and gear will help you breathe very well. Megasquirt running 46#/hr injectors will give you lots of fuel and support lots of power. There's a few things missing, though:



Ugly Duck wrote:
Turbo - that T3/T4 you linked to is indeed crap, but the level of crap is in question. One guy on Tbrix is running low 13s on one and has been boosting it to over 20 psi for the last while. It still hasn't blown up, while his actual Garrett T3/T4 blew up in 50 miles. I think they're hit-and-miss, and at $150 a pop, it's a gamble. The HY35W would be a good choice, as they're a REALLY strong turbo with a nice wide powerband and an excellent reputation, and they're available on eBay once in a while 'cause the CTD guys are upgrading them all the time. However, the kiddies are all looking for the HY because it's got the smaller turbine housing to work with their little 1.6 & 1.8 litre motors. I've got an HX35W that I'm going to be trying on my car, which might require a slightly smaller cam than the IPD Turbo to be truly happy. The key with the Holsets is to deal with the wastegate - it doesn't flow nearly enough. I'm going to try porting mine out and using a 39mm exhaust valve as a flapper, but Alamo turbochargers said that they could do the same thing with the biggest flapper that will fit, for about $150.


I have a guy who wants to sell me a HY35W for a 120 bucks, so next paycheque I should be able to do some matt-money(tm) - a cherry picker (my other one got stolen, again) - and some turbo happy :) 9cm exhaust housing ftmfw :) I have an old Audi wastegate I can use...


Ugly Duck wrote:
Fuel system: Your injectors will flow about 480 cc/min each at 3 bar and about 550 cc/min if you install a 4 bar regulator from a turbo Dodge. That should be good for between 350 hp at "safely rich" to about 425 hp at "scary lean". Great, but you're gonna need a fuel pump. The fuel pump in your car, brand new, is good for about 3.5 of your injectors at 3 bar and about 2 of your injectors at 4 bar. You could try a Walbro high pressure, which is what I'm going to be using, or you could try dual K-jet fuel pumps in parallel. Either would take some monkeying, but the dual K-jet pumps will be cheaper.


I've got a walbro 255 lph that I bought looong time ago, guess I could use that? :) Should I put it inline, and just keep the intank pump as is?



Ugly Duck wrote:
Powertrain: Your transmission is NOT going to take what the engine will give. I don't know how much power it'll take, but eventually it'll blow up when you're in 3rd gear. I'm going to be installing my T5 into my car, but that requires a buch of money invested. Clutch, pilot bearing, throwout bearing, transmission adapter, shifter, driveshaft... I think the easiest & cheapest way you could survive with that power is by installing an AW71 automatic. If it's in good shape, they can take lots of punishment, but I know how much you like manuals so I doubt this is an option. Aside from buying up someone's Getrag, Toyota, or T5 swap kit, I don't know what to suggest.


I dont mind changing transmissions all the time :) Its "cheaper" for me than figuring out where in the world to find money for a swap...

Ugly Duck wrote:
Rear end: You've already blown up how many welded rear ends through abuse? Might be time to try something else. You can get a Powertrax locker for that rear end, and if you've got an automatic I don't think it would be so terrible to live with. They're strong, can take lots of abuse, get rid of all the trouble with side and spider gears, weakened welded bits, etc. You'll snap axles first, but that will be rare. You could keep trying the welded route, though, but how many replacements will it take to pay for a Powertrax? (same arguement as for the tranny swap)


Can't I just run an open 1031 diff? - Aren't the powertrax units expensive? Is there no cheap alternative at all? - I was thinking of figuring out how to make a spool :D

That or run an 8.8" I guess? :)


Ugly Duck wrote:
And FWIW, nitrous doesn't work that way. If it's a 50 shot on a V8 it's a 50 shot on a 4 cylinder. It's enough air and fuel to make 50 horsepower - if it's in a V8 that 50 hp is distributed over 8 cylinders at 6.25 each. Realistically a 50 shot makes more than that, so your 78 hp claim isn't WRONG, just not specific to a 4 banger install.


I thought nitrous was fancier... see, in the manual for my Nitrous controller - there are different jet sizes for fuel/nitrous for 8cyl/6cyl and 4cyl.

I unno?

- R


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:43 pm 
Haha, I just built a W24 Octo-Turbo, now what?!
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:40 pm
Posts: 3492
Location: Calgary, Ab
Don't worry about the Matt-money just yet. I'm talking to Roberta about you supplying us with a laptop, or at least getting us a good deal on one to work off the debt. We'll pay for the bits & pieces, of course - you supply the hookup and the labour, & maybe give us a hand setting up the network.

The Powertrax units aren't bad. $200-250 or so, and they replace the spider & side gears in your diff. You've gotta take the diff apart, but you don't have to change bearings or anything else like that.

I don't know what your nitrous manual is talking about - I'd have to read it, but if a single jet is passing x amount of liquid nitrous & y amount of fuel, you'll make z more horsepower at all RPMs, no matter the size of the engine, number of cylinders, etc. If you're talking about a fogger system where you've got one jet per cylinder, then yeah you need bigger jets to get the same power increase over fewer cylinders.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:05 pm 
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Ugly Duck wrote:
Don't worry about the Matt-money just yet. I'm talking to Roberta about you supplying us with a laptop, or at least getting us a good deal on one to work off the debt. We'll pay for the bits & pieces, of course - you supply the hookup and the labour, & maybe give us a hand setting up the network.


Call me tomorrow some time, or whenever is good - let me get the low down on what you're thinking, I can get pretty sick deals on stuff in the IT industry (wholesale stuff, OEM stuff sent back for repair and then refurbished and sold retaaaardedly cheap) - And as you know, I have no problem working the debt off, you guys are doing your renos and all, but your baby needs attention too :)

Ugly Duck wrote:
The Powertrax units aren't bad. $200-250 or so, and they replace the spider & side gears in your diff. You've gotta take the diff apart, but you don't have to change bearings or anything else like that.


Sounds good... I'll keep my eyes peeled, ebay the best place? or?

Ugly Duck wrote:
I don't know what your nitrous manual is talking about - I'd have to read it, but if a single jet is passing x amount of liquid nitrous & y amount of fuel, you'll make z more horsepower at all RPMs, no matter the size of the engine, number of cylinders, etc. If you're talking about a fogger system where you've got one jet per cylinder, then yeah you need bigger jets to get the same power increase over fewer cylinders.


Its a 'dry' kit that injects nitrous into your fuel rail and nitrous into your intake... its kinda lame, its' the ZEX kit, and the jets vary in size depending on how many cylinders you have... I have teh no ideaz.

- R


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